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What about me listening random noise? Does it make me a mental case?? I am insulted. |
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Interesting thread. I wrote something and then deleted it which is just as well. |
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hahahahahahaha |
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About this plaid and autechre thing. I dont feel that Plaid is pop music, I've played it to people who listen to the basic MTV pop music. They didnt get a grip of it, said that its just random sounds and reminds them of space. And in my opinion Plaid is much more accessible when compared to Autechre. Plaid resembles pop music much more. The instruments they use are quite typical. when it comes to the structure and melodies and the whole flow of the track, it resembles pop music in many ways. Autechre in my opinion is much more about the patterns of the sounds and often the structures and the composition of the songs is complex. Allso the sounds are really electronic. |
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i agree with everything you said completely about the brain types and how we perceive the patterns of the glitchy sounds. i had to let it sink in but now i immerse myself in every (LPA) track i hear now. i still love the early material aswell mind you. my friends cant stand (LPA) they think its boring and too noisy, we even smoked a bowl and listened to chiastic slide and i still couldnt get a single good word out of them. they didnt understand the patterns which i can follow so well. im not trying to be a prick saying a have more grey matter or anything, but it is true that only certain listeners will indulge in (LPA) and it very well may be somehow related with people who have a highly functioning autistic mind. |
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LPA looks so fucking gay. |
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I'm interested in understanding the psychology of a non-autechre listener as well. For those who don't like AE, please tell me how you feel when you hear them, what you think they lack. |
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I've finally escaped the evil clutches of work and can respond properly to everyone's comments. Okay I think people slightly misinterpreted some of my pompously worded posts (except Keyfumbler, you seemed to understand exactly what I was saying). This isn't about people who listen to autechre being more 'intelligent', and it's not really even about autechre. Recent autechre is just the best known example of the kind of abstract rhythms I'm talking about. (by the way Tolstoyed I'm gonna check out that Tokyo+1 shit you keep bigging up) Ecnadniarb: "some people will like a certain type of pasta based dish while someone who likes pasta equally as much will detest it...would you say that the person who dislikes it has a less refined pallet?" No, I wouldn't. Very important point. Let's say that we find a whole group of people (group A) prefer dish A, and a whole group of people (group B) prefer dish B, and of course they all like pasta just as much as each other. But then we find that group A have something else in common; they all pull up their trousers left leg first. Wouldn't you be interested in finding out why there's a correlation between liking dish A and having a particular way of pulling up your trousers? It doesn't mean you're implying that left leg first is any better than right leg first, or that dish A is any better than dish B. Now let's say there's another group of people, an extreme group, called group AA. These guys can only wear trousers on their left leg, can't stand wearing them on their right, and they suffer because of it (social exclusion, a fucking cold leg when it snows, etc.). If knowing more about the characteristics of group A (eg. Their fondness for pasta dish A) can help us understand how to prevent people being group AA, then we should do everything we can to investigate the link. |
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Supposition is not fact. Damn straight. But everything I’ve said could be tested to some extent by experiments with large numbers of subjects listening to more or less fucked up beats etc. All ae's recent stuff is just as loop based as their earlier stuff, they are quite basic loops as well...then the added goodness comes in :D Haha yeah I think this is true too. But the rhythms in the loops are much harder to digest, they’re jarring on first listen, not quite right. This turns off a lot of people. But then for some, after a while, they start to make sense. For me this comes when I can visualise the beat in my head, like in a sequencer, which is partly because doing my own music production has changed the way my mind processes rhythms. Matvey: "I'm trying to pass the mentioned ." It’s not supposed to be a test that you pass or don’t pass! You could just lie and get ‘full’ marks. It’s a (frivolous and not at all diagnostic) way of seeing where you lie on the spectrum from systemising to empathising. Being a more systemising, glitchy beat-loving kinda guy doesn’t make you better or worse than someone who understands loads about (say) animals, can read their feelings really well, and has a natural instinct for empathising. Sneakattack: a person's raw computational power is being shown more and more in recent studies to have certain similarities to computer architecture. Actually I think the computer analogy is on its way out. The brain is so much more structurally complicated than a computer; perhaps the most important diff is that the brain works in parallel, computer in serial. Parallel activity leads to synchronous activity (leads to consciousness….? Who knows). There's no such thing as a person’s raw computational power. Eysenck spent decades trying to find a biological substrate for intelligence (speed of neuronal transmission etc.) and got nowh |
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he got nowhere. if anyone actually managed to read all that shit. |
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Occupation count (from more systemising to more empathising i reckon) engineering/maths/compsci/physics/convicted car thief IIIII music/psychology/philosophy III drama/film studies II DON'T TAKE THIS TOO SERIOUSLY!! professions are a dumbass way of measuring someone's brain type. weak correlations. which is why I'm interested in the whole abstract music thing; I reckon it's a much much better way. |
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add another to the compsci pile |
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But even by your own comments everything you stated in your first couple of posts is supposition based on nothing more than your opinion, yet you presented your ideas as facts. You must have noticed it takes a bit of time before LPA songs properly make sense. Some people are better able to (or have a greater drive to) make sense of autechre songs than others; The fact that you imply people either have an ability or drive to "make sense" of the tracks directly implies an incapability rather than disliking by those who don't enjoy listening to ae. I just think you are pretty much wrong in all you say, and considering you are supposed to be a graduate in psychology I think you are allowing your own experience and opinion of the music to cloud your overall judgement...not a goot sign. |
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I am also a pimp, which is part of the arts (personally I would class motor vehicle theft as an art as well...although it does have scientific and psychological issues attached). |
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well of course the computer analogy fundamentally doesn't work--any consideration of the component makeup of a brain vs. that of a computer makes it ridiculously obvious to any consideration that they are completely different, which is precisely why it is fun to see where they are alike. And those studies I quoted are recent. any analytical machine of any form, be it a silicon computer, a human mind, or a water driven calculator, can in some way have computational power calculated. The human mind is no different. Sure there are lots and lots of weird specializations, but at the heart it is a general analysis machine, and this fact makes up well for any deficiencies in the specializations in any individual. I'm hedging on details because I'm lazy, so just believe me, and the robot army I'm going to create based on my principles. |
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Well it's practically a seperate genre from, um, EPA, so a distinction is necessary. Of course you probably all know more about the massively parrallel computer theory than I. I just heard of it from reading Daniel Hillis. People still seem to know little of how brain work. The idea of a brain figuring itself out is oddly striking... massively parrallel computers are perhaps closer than linear computing, but who knows how it really works. Brains have years and years of selection through evolution at the heart of their creation and evolution will use every sleight of hand, counterintuitive subtle trick at it's disposal and is therefore superior to anything deliberately engineered. But the most interesting field of psychology I've read about is the protoscience of memetics. There are a handful of species that give a shit about what we think of as music, seemingly ones that are more advanced memetic replicators like birds. Cats and dogs don't seem to care for example, then again they communicate in long simple sounds, not digital enough to carry much information. As to why someone would like autechre over something else.. well I tried to reply to that again but it was stupid again so deleted it. I should really be doing something worthwhile with my time... |
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How many here hate chocolate? If so, please describe how you feel when tasting it. |
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I want taste buds all over my face and skin so tasting will be as informative as seeing. |
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Sneakattack: any analytical machine of any form, be it a silicon computer, a human mind, or a water driven calculator, can in some way have computational power calculated... at the heart it is a general analysis machine I agree with the former, disagree with the latter. Yes you can in some way have computational power calculated, but it depends entirely on the task at hand. A computer approaches two logically equivalent problems in the same way. A human mind however is much more dependent upon context; so we approach a social problem using particular modules, a tool-based problem using others, etc., even if it is mathematically reducible to the same problem. this is how evolution has shaped our brains. If a human is a superior computational device to a squirrel (which I presume you would agree), why would a squirrel beat a human at a test of storing and retrieving nuts? because their minds are specialised for this task. so it is with humans, but some humans are better at certain things than others. how else can you expain uneven IQ profiles (the extreme being autistic savants)? Ecnadniarb: I didn't present my ideas as facts, in fact I frequently said "I think that..." which is a world apart from "it is the case that...". I think you are allowing your own experience and opinion of the music to cloud your overall judgement Quite how anyone would form an opinion on anything - science or otherwise - based on anything other than their own experience, is beyond me. If you mean I'm overly projecting my own subjective experience as objective, well that's why I posted it on a message board, to see if anyone else thought similarly. The response is mixed but that's what I expected, and at least it's generated an interesting debate. These debates always end up becoming adversarial but hell, we all enjoy a good argument. w M w - I reckon psychosisis is the most interesting area of psychology. I'm off to systematemise me a sandwich. |
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ecna: careful, your description of a computer's behavior is missing the point of software. A computer _can_ think of millions of things if programmed correctly. If programmed badly it does things mindlessly; a lump of unprogrammed silicon chips is just as pointless as a lump of undifferentiated undeveloped neurons. Eventually there will be common software enabling computers to solve problems in a general way like humans. with a general intellect I can hone my body and mind in a way a squirrel cannot, so without developing devices I could slowly improve improve improve, whereas it would be left with its built in mechanisms. Of course this general mechanism has overhead, which is why I start out slower than that which has it innate, but... this argument is turning suck. No one wants to listen to anyone, and everyone thinks that only they are correct |
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heh heh |
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SHUT UP I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG!!!111 END OF DISCUSSIOPNmn[p |
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evacuate thread! board the fuckwagon consort! appease appease! |
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I didn't even mention computers. :P |
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you just did mr. no escape now. |
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does a dog have buddha nature? |
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w00t! i love online quizzes - so good for work avoidance. anyway, i just did those bbc tests: apparently, my empathy quotient is 56 and my systemizing quotient is 38. I appear to be above average for *both*…. i'm also female and love autechre. what does this say about me, VLetr? should I be concerned? : p heh |
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i regret that i had to leave before finishing what i had to say (although Keyfumbler did manage to sum up a basic important part of it... which unfortunately doesn't sound very compelling unless you provide the kind of elaboration that i had to time for)... at the risk of drawing the ire of someone who probably knows a lot more than i do about psychology, i must disagree with the idea of throwing out the navel-gazery of Freud... i certainly don't agree with Freud on a lot of issues (he seemed quite short-sighted at times, particularly in his amusing inability to read himself), but i do think that some of his key ideas, as reiterated by the likes of Jacques Lacan (who is generally much more agreeable, imo) are valuable... one mustn't underestimate the performative aspect of a person's will to identify themselves with certain objects and not with others... genetics and brain structure (or whatever the proper term is for describing such things) certainly factor in, but they can hardly account for all the exceptions and aberrations which can and will arise, regardless of the assertion... |
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this thread is very intriguing to me.. and it's funny how heated the debate can be when it comes to ideas/discussions of this nature. i guess that's what happens when a brain tries to rationalise or understand the nature of itself. the result is varying, like everyone's perception of existence. the brain is just fascinating.. and ultimately its methods and unseen motives are non-understandable, at least to me.. i took the tests and ended up in the dead centre.. or "balanced".. as for autechre, i like their later material especially. i mean, the earlier material is definitely more straightforward and the emotional aspect of it is much easier to grasp. but the later stuff has a much more random and haphazard feel to it.. like it's representative of the world. i get a feeling of a human spirit fighting against the relentless and oft-cold and chaotic nature of the world. i don't necessarily look for any unseen patterns in their music.. part of what i like about their music is that it seems like it is largely influenced by chance and spontaneous or accidental actions.. like they aren't so caught in the whole "my music has to sound this way because that is how i envisioned it in my head" it's more like they just let it happen.. and let thinly-fleshed out ideas conduct themselves, instead of the music being so pre-meditated.. it seems almost impromptu.. in that the only the creation is the music.. i tend to look at their later stuff as filling a certain niche between spontaneity and meticulousness. i mean, you can tell they put lots of time into tweaking certain things to their likely, but the overall composition and structure and general meddling that encompasses it all seems to be more "let" happen, as apposed to "made" happen.. if that makes any sense.. it is interesting what was said about autism and such.. i can definitely see how someone with it could not stand something like late-autechre.. in the same way that they cant cope with life.. its random chaotic and unplanned.. |
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{cont.} .. but i wonder if keyfumbler's roommate could tolerate well-recorded jazz? i could see that being a bit more tolerable.. because its not trying to be blatantly random-sounding.. or at least they do try to find order in the chaos.. and follow some rule of harmony/melody/etc.. its not just chaos for the sake of chaos.. not that any music really can be chaos.. I mean once it is recorded it has order in that it is the same every time the disc is played.. and a sentance in there should've read "tweaking things to their liking" |
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ah sheit another mistake.. the sentence: "..in that the only the creation is the music.. " should've read: "..in that, only the creation is the music.." |
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fact 1. I love autechre´s music, from early 90´s layered tracks to early 2000´s abstract glitch fact 2. they are incredible and do incredible music fact 3. their music is full of emotions fact 3. their music is not more for male than for women.... thats just ridiculous fact 4. I like the word "fact" |
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listen to my new spam and tell me what you think? :) |
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don't, im only joking with that brinkmann release, it's great and i like it more to any autechre, but im not their biggest fan so that's understandable... but in case you'd really want to check him out, you can find some info about it |
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where? |
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:) |
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wtf is LPA? |
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autechre for non-faggots :P |
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I would say their music is very masculine. |
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i must be retarded, I don't know why I labelled my comment at you when it was clearly to vletr *Sigh* |
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I worry about you sometimes. You seem a little down and low on confidence/self esteem at the moment. |
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explain |
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Wow thats a pretty good um... report or something. Now tell us about how one guy from ae went to vocational school and the other dropped out of college. |
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i dont understand any of this shit |
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Telica: yes, you should be very worried. Report back to my clinic in six weeks’ time and I’ll teach you how to think correctly. :P DeadEight: my earlier dismissal of Freud was a little extreme. Much of Freud’s ideas are now such a part of the everyday folk psychology lexicon (the subconscious, the ego, repression, etc.) that he no longer receives due credit for the originality of his thought. I don’t really consider Freud to be a scientist though because he never actually tested any of his hypotheses by controlled experiment. I appreciate Freud as I appreciate Nietzsche or Schopenhauer; as a great theorist and writer, a great reflector on the human condition, but not as an empirical psychologist. Nacmat: fact 3. their music is not more for male than for women.... thats just ridiculous. So why are so few women into it? Take a look around this message board… Someone else (I forget who) mentioned heavy metal being male dominated as well. I think that’s because it’s aggressive, and men are affected by, and react to, aggression much more instinctively than females; similarly I think rhythmically obtuse electronica is male dominated because males are affected by, and react to, complex systems more instinctively than females. I’m talking about a broad trend here and not a case-by-case rule. Obviously every individual is unique. I happen to believe that both the aggressive instinct and the systemising instinct have been shaped by evolution along the lines of males as hunters, females as gatherers/nurturers; males being those with most to gain from being receptive aggressors (competitive dominance hierarchies) and from being receptive systemisers (understanding the mechanics of hunting, and shaping tools for hunting). This paragraph is of course conjecture; shit that happened 5 million years ago is hardly testable in the laboratory! |
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Sneakattack: everything you’ve said has been intelligent and interesting (in the genuine sense, not in the false sense you assumed last time!). We disagree about whether the human mind is essentially a general analysis machine or a modular analysis machine, but your ideas are at least as valid as my own, and the truth is probably somewhere between the two (as always with such artificial dichotomies… see nature/nurture argument). But what fun would conceding that be in the heat of a debate? :P |
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again, girls don't like it coz they get nothing out of it. |
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It's fucking bullshit about women not liking IDM, the Warp Halloween party was heaving with girls, I know plenty of girls in town who dig Aphex. If you haven't met any girls who listen to IDM, I suggest you stop being so fucking ugly. |
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i get RSI symptoms from only READING this thread |
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same thing. |
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