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People are starting to call for an investigation into the invasion of Iraq under false pretense. NY times article found here: Basically, Dr. Kay, in charge of the investigation for WMDs, found nothing of the sort, and said it was obvious there weren't any such weapons for years. Intelligence breakdown or politics as usual? I'm all for an inquiring, not just because I don't like bush, but because I do love my country. Being the butt of the world view is awful, and we should be spreading human rights and dignity, not imperialism and suffering. Politics aside, I think an investigation is a good idea. You? |
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There was a thing in the newspaper saying that there are people in the white house who are saying that the evidence and reasons to go into Iraq in the first place were pretty much false. |
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i'm glad that people in the states don't like the fact that the world hates them... |
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no shit. |
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no shit. |
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Any investigation will be a whitewash. The American people need to overthrow the state and be done with their elite's imperial adventures. Only then will they stop another 9/11. |
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why investigate something they allready know; again a waste of a lot of money wich they could better spend on saving the world...and I don't think saving the world is going to be done by using artillerie |
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Not going to happen is it? |
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the last time bush had the idea he is responsible to "save the world" he started the iraq war... |
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No one can say. |
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see, that is the thing. Is this call for an investigation all political? If it is, then it doesn't matter, we are fucked from the start. If it isn't, and people really want to find out who fucked up so bad, then lets do it!. Gawd, the 2004 elections can't come soon enough....... |
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You need to take up arms against your government mate. Get organazized! |
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Fuck government yes, but I still love my country, it is full of many good people. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure everyone who is outraged, fucking VOTES. Yes, this time I will march, this time I will protest, because if we fuck up again this time, oh lord....... :( --------- but yeah, I really think an independent investigation might make everyone realize the false pretenses that got 500+ of our boys killed, mud on our face, and another country invaded and occupied. double :( |
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how do people in the US generally feel about the election coming up? Are they looking foward to getting rid of Bush or do they actually think he's doing a good job? |
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Fuck voting! As RATM had it: the structure is set you never change it with a ballot poll. You've got to get it together mairn, like the muthfuckin Weathermen. |
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i think bush is doing ok. a number of his policies scare me, and the whole "either you're with me, or you're against me" mentality leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. i don't think it's healthy to discourage dissent like that. and his aggressive foriegn policy is creating a lot of resentment towards america. but, overall i think he's done a pretty decent job. there'll always be hatred for america, as long as we're on top. when we crumble, there'll be hatred for whoever takes our place. i thought it was dumb to put so much emphasis on wmd as a justification for war. just because i was afraid this would happen. we don't find them and the shit hits the fan. i don't doubt that dubya thought there was a really good chance saddam had them. i sure as hell think he wanted them. but, i'd say it's a fair bet that the administration stretched the truth a good bit. - saddam's a bad guy. - iraq sits on prime real estate. - it's in the middle of an area that is very hostile to america. - they have oil. - saddam probably provides help to people that hate america. - saddam tried to kill dubya's daddy. - there's a good chance he has, or is trying to get wmd's. - he's repeatedly ignored specific UN mandates. - the UN sanctions are killing the most innocent iraqis every day. - the bulk of our army is already there. all of these (and more i'm sure) are reasons for the war. was i "for" the war? absolutely not. war is horrible. but, i do think it was the best option out of a pool of all bad options. if you're going to dispute my standpoint, please, state what you think should've been done instead. not just how much you hate america. |
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oh, and i have no idea who i'm going to vote for. i'd really like to get someone with a little bit less of a unilateral mindset in office. but, absolutely none of the democratic contenders seem very appealing to me. there doesn't seem to be any real mission from any of them. dean's whole campaign seems to be that he's anti-bush... which is nice when you want to get people riled up, but, exactly what does he stand for? tear down everything bush has done. ok, fine. but, now what are you going to rebuild? |
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"if you're going to dispute my standpoint, please, state what you think should've been done instead. not just how much you hate america." America "had to act"?? Don't make me laugh. |
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nah, we didn't have to act. i never said that at all. i just said that i thought removing saddam by force was a more acceptable option than doing nothing. which is what you seem to be emplying should've been done. |
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there is nothing they should have done instead, the US does NOT rule the world. Thats why there is the United Nations, and we know what the US thinks about that organisation. |
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but why all of a sudden did something need to be done? The US supported Iraq for years, knowing what the regime was like. |
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the UN had tried to impose their will on iraq time and time again. multiple resolutions trying to force saddam to comply with open inspections, and disclosure of information about his various illegal (on an international scale) programs. and time and time again he blatantly disregarded those resolutions. so, the UN imposed sanctions. those sactions were critically flawed. they were killing thousands of truly innocent iraqis every month. i don't see how doing nothing and letting those people starve can be so easilly ignored by the world. saddam was very vocal about his dislike for america. should we've removed those sanctions and let him do what he wanted? honestly, is that a better option? i do think bush went about it too unilaterally. i said that above. but, i don't think we did the complete wrong thing. |
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i listed a number of reasons in my long post above. we provided some support for iraq because we disliked iran more. politics is a shitty shitty business that breeds coruption. i'm not serving up blanket support for our gov't. they do plenty of things that i can't stand. |
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"should we've removed those sanctions and let him do what he wanted? honestly, is that a better option?" i don't honesly know what would have been the best option. I just think diplomacy, a changing of the sanctions so the people did not suffer would have been better than all the civilian deaths caused by "Shock and Awe" (what were they thinking??) As for WMD, UN weapon inspectors said they were making progress, however the US insisted they had to act quick! They couldn't wait months because of these invisible WMD they were developing. |
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"however the US insisted they had to act quick!" yeah, i think that was probably bullshit. i think we already had our carriers, battleships, tanks and men in the area... plus, dubya wanted to make the move before his term was up. that was probably the hurry. but, the inspectors had been saying they were making progress for 12 years. i really don't think the diplomacy between the world and saddam would've ever worked, because he didn't want it to. however, i do think dubya should've worked harder on the diplomacy between the US and the rest of the world. |
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"however, i do think dubya should've worked harder on the diplomacy between the US and the rest of the world." I think so too, and the UN should have had the last say on Iraq. Aside from that, the current goverment is TERRIBLE when it comes to Environmental issues. I heard he even lifted limits to the amount of pollution factories could produce? Anyway i'm more concerned about the future and the possibility of a US Government without Bush. I've been looking at some of the democrats and i'd pick any of the main 3 to replace Bush. |
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i h8 the vast majority of the republican stance on the environment. they're very pro business. and environmental reform costs businesses money. but, i think in the long run there's schloads of money to be saved/made from going green. <-- very pro environment. |
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The Hutton enquiry has ruled that Blair did believe there were WMDs... I normally have faith in the law lords so this has shaken my belief that Blair did know there was no threat a bit. |
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anyone who loves a country needs their head examined |
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affirmative. |
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I find it strange he's so convinced they had WMD. Even Colin Powell admitted the other day he didn't know wether they had WMD or not. Why is Tony Blair so convinced? |
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i love my car. i love my chain. i'm i'm just in love with that girl over there. |
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bush may well be voted in for another term |
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I know, it would of been more diplomatic for him to of said he believed there was a fair chance they did, enough to warrant going to war. His dogged insistance that they did falls down when he is unable to produce any evidence. |
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i don't carre about nothing no morre. therre's little point it seems. |
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yes theres that |
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i wonder where the rollover is |
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"bush may well be voted in for another term" don't say thinks like that, i'm trying to be hopeful here! |
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I think you are blind to the fact that the USA not only supported Iraq, but supplied them with weapons to not only kill enemies with, but kill Iraq`s own people. And I also think you are blind to the fact that the USA`s main purpose for this war was to take over Iraq`s vast oil fields, thus gifting US companies with Multi-milliondollar contracts in the name of corporate gain. And another reason or this war was for the US to extend it`s mission to become a Undemocratic Global Police State. bye |
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and, i think you are quick to tell me that i'm blind because you disagree with my point of view. i also think you are quick to assume that you're point of view is undoubtedly correct. i clearly stated in one of my posts above that i believe the fact that iraq has oil was a factor in the eagerness for us to go to war. do i think it was the major cause? i'm unsure. but, i doubt it was as simple as our oil lust. i also acknowledged that we supported the unsavory saddam regime. i gave, what i believe to be the reasons for this. and stated that gov't was a breeding ground for corruption, and implied that i did not like that. |
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and, i think you are quick to tell me that i'm blind because you disagree with my point of view. i also think you are quick to assume that you're point of view is undoubtedly correct. i clearly stated in one of my posts above that i believe the fact that iraq has oil was a factor in the eagerness for us to go to war. do i think it was the major cause? i'm unsure. i also acknowledged that we supported the unsavory saddam regime. i gave, what i believe to be the reason for this. and stated that gov't was a breeding ground for corruption, and implied that i did not like that. |
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and, i think you are quick to tell me that i'm blind because you disagree with my point of view. i also think you are quick to assume that you're point of view is undoubtedly correct. i clearly stated in one of my posts above that i believe the fact that iraq has oil was a factor in the eagerness for us to go to war. do i think it was the major cause? i'm unsure. i also acknowledged that we supported the unsavory saddam regime. i gave, what i believe to be the reason for this. and stated that gov't was a breeding ground for corruption, and implied that i did not like that. |
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and, i think you are quick to tell me that i'm blind because you disagree with my point of view. i also think you are quick to assume that you're point of view is undoubtedly correct. i clearly stated in one of my posts above that i believe the fact that iraq has oil was a factor in the eagerness for us to go to war. do i think it was the major cause? i'm unsure. i also acknowledged that we supported the unsavory saddam regime. i gave, what i believe to be the reason for this. and stated that gov't was a breeding ground for corruption, and implied that i did not like that. |
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wtf? |
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ok we get it already! :) |
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haha! well, i'm a trigger happy american, what can i say? :) |
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I am always correct. :) |
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There have been more resolutions passed against Israel and yet we do nothing. Why? |
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why not bump? |
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