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My mum is a big Tolkien fan and she says that he based the map of Middle Earth on Britain, with the template being Scotland, Northern and Western England, and Devon and Cornwall as the goood parts, and London as the centre of all evil Mordor! I wonder if this is true. Good template if ever i`ve seen one. No offence cockneys! |
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that's prolly as untrue as the story that it might reflect on world war two or something. people should just exept that it's fantasy |
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well, the consensus is more or less that there are reflections of Tolkien's war experiences in WW1 in there. |
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but he denies that himself doesnt he? at least that's what i believe to have read in a introduction of him |
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Well, of course there would be reflections of it... it would be silly to assume that it wouldn't be an influence on his personality and thus on his writing. What he explicitly denies is the presence of allegory of any kind, such as the WW2 idea some people have had. ---- About the Middle-Earth <-> Britain thing, I don't think that's true. There was a strong connection between the real world, particularly Britain, and his fictional history of it in the early stages of its development - but at no stage that I know of was it equated with the Northwestern corner of Middle-Earth at the end of the third age. For example, very early on Britain was supposed to be Tol Eressea (Tirion, which was on Tol Eressea at the time, was Warwick); later AElfwine was supposed to have sailed to Tol Eressea from the western shore of Ireland. (at that point, I think, Beleriand was conceived to have been broken into large pieces at the sinking of Númenór; one of these might have been thought to have become Britain, although I don't think I remember reading anything to that effect) In any case, such an interpretation wouldn't make a lot of sense... as I said before, this would map Britain to the Northwestern corner of Middle-Earth, and discard the Southern and Eastern parts, though Tolkien didn't write much about what went on there after the Chaining of Melkor. I'm not entirely sure about all of this, though - I'd need to read up on some of it first. |
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look for the extras in dvd middle earth is inspired in great britain dont know about london being mordor but it wouldnt be strange cos london in that years was very industrial and tolkien seemed to hate industry |
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Look at me geekle on and then mistype a word. It's supposed to be "Númenor". Need to use the preview button more. |
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dude, im not gonna watch lord of the rings dvd's, sorry yes, that's right gnocelot, have you, btw participated in the xltronic logo design contest? because i like your av |
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i bet its true |
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your av is great |
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apparently it is true. my parents live in worcestershire (which is meant to be the shire) cos tolkien spent a lot of his youth around here.. the elves came from the west so theyre meant to be welsh. dwarves form the north (scots) apparently tolkien was traumatised at the industrialisation of birmingham (isengard).. so yeah, it stands to reason that mordor is london. i guess that must make a lot of northeners happy |
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middle earth = midlands.. theres actually a farm not far from my parents house called bag end.. it predates the books. |
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if i remember correctly - youre exactly right. he said the book wasnt a metaphor - just applicable to situations. theres a whole convoluted explanation about how, if it was an allegory for WWII or the intro of nuclear weapons then the end of the story would have to be totally different. when i re-read it a few years ago i had a friend who was beginning rehabilitation from a heroin addiction & i saw so many things in the story which fitted perfectly with that. i guess the premise of the books is so universal (temptation, corruption, power, environmentalism etc) its like seeing faces in the clouds.. every one sees something perosnal to them. maybe thats why its so popular. |
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I live in worcestershire And my name is Everard Proudfoot |
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so how come your details say your from east london? |
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A of my avatar I made a while ago. [291 kb] --- I repeat, though: there is no isomorphism between Britain and Middle-Earth. There is of course a lot of inspiration (even after the old idea of linking the whole thing to English history, basically making it a sort of English mythology, had been largely abandoned) but you can't generally say this part of Middle-Earth is exactly this part of Britain. Rather, this aspect of this area was an important influence on this passage in Tolkien's writing - for example, industrialisation ruining the area where he grew up was part of the origin of the Scouring of the Shire. (I'm very sad they're leaving this out of the movies, incidentally.) From the "Foreword to the Second Edition" of LotR: [...] Or to take a less grievous matter: it has been supposed by some that 'The Scouring of the Shire' reflects the situation in England at the time when I was finishing my tale. It does not. It is an essential part of the plot, foreseen from the outset, though in the event modified by the character of Saruman as developed in the story without, need I say, any allegorical significance or contemporary political reference whatsoever. It has indeed some basis in experience, though slender (for the economic situation was entirely different) and much further back. The country in which I lived in childhood was being shabbily destroyed before I was ten, in days when motor-cars were rare objects (I had never seen one) and men were still building suburban railways. Recently I saw in a paper a picture of the last decrepitude of the once thriving corn-mill beside its pool that long ago seemed to me so important. I never liked the looks of the Young miller, but his father, the Old miller, had a black beard, and he was not named Sandyman. |
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we stand corrected sir. |
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of course if you were going to come in at a psychological level, then the degree to which the subconcious affects the conscious could provide an explanation for the apparent correlation of geography. it is a fact that tolkien's elvish has a celtic lilt similar to welsh - according to scholars & people that like to spend their time learning & writing languages that never existed. |
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