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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 05:06 [#00863451]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker
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How bloody sad that the Swedes, still too cosy and mentally numbed by their astounding welfare system haven't got the political vision or courage to join the great European project. Nothing much has changed since the golden years of collaborative "neutrality" during WWII. Guess i'll be keeping my euros for estonia then.
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tolstoyed
from the ocean on 2003-09-15 05:09 [#00863454]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator
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smart people...swedes i wish we'd be that smart...
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princo
from Shitty City (Geelong) (Australia) on 2003-09-15 05:15 [#00863455]
Points: 13411 Status: Lurker
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We are yellow, We are blue.. We are Sweden, who are you?!
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TonyFish
from the realm of our dreams on 2003-09-15 05:18 [#00863456]
Points: 3349 Status: Lurker | Followup to tolstoyed: #00863454
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not
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nacmat
on 2003-09-15 05:20 [#00863457]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker
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globalization sucks
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 05:26 [#00863461]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker
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Wow, you really impress me guys: you think that a political organisation of the size and depth of europe built in less than 60 years and that will guard europe against the possibility of a great european war ever happening in the furture, that binds peoples that once hated, fought and massacre each other for centuries, that guarantees economic prosperity, cultural revival and friendship between nations is not worth fighting for? I'm sure if you had lived in the era of gas chambers and killing fields you would have a different opinion and think twice about cheap "globalisation sucks" messages that are often maske nationalistic cries and racist tendancies.
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mortsto-x
from Trondheim/Bodø (Norway) on 2003-09-15 05:27 [#00863464]
Points: 8062 Status: Lurker
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Yeh. They did the right thing, I think.
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ambsace
from canaDUH. on 2003-09-15 05:28 [#00863467]
Points: 6326 Status: Lurker
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i wish i followed current world events and such.
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iBAN
from Brisvegas (Australia) on 2003-09-15 05:30 [#00863470]
Points: 334 Status: Lurker
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the eu is a big scam, europes gonna end up as fucked up as america...its so sad
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nacmat
on 2003-09-15 05:35 [#00863477]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461
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I like diferent cultures and customs... I am no racist... I like inmigration in my country cos I think that fusion of cultures is great.
but still... globalisation sucks
just imo
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Laserbeak
from Netherlands, The on 2003-09-15 05:35 [#00863479]
Points: 2670 Status: Lurker
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We didn't even get to vote if we wanted to join or not :(
Anyway, good choice Swedes
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ISayNothing
from Mt. Pus (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 05:36 [#00863481]
Points: 575 Status: Regular
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wish i had a very smart comment on this.
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Jarworski
from The Grove (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 05:49 [#00863489]
Points: 10836 Status: Lurker
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What's a Sweden?
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ambsace
from canaDUH. on 2003-09-15 05:50 [#00863490]
Points: 6326 Status: Lurker | Followup to Jarworski: #00863489
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i dunno, but if it's as cute as your turtle...
i think i'll melt. aw.
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mc_303_beatz
from Glasgow, Scotland on 2003-09-15 05:59 [#00863496]
Points: 3386 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461
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time to dismount your high condescending horse methinks..
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:20 [#00863515]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to mc_303_beatz: #00863496
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Why? Because i think that political and economic unity is preferable to war and chaos? Because i subscribe to a mainstream current of ideas that refuses to be blinded by petty navel gazing nationalism?
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Archrival
on 2003-09-15 06:24 [#00863520]
Points: 4265 Status: Lurker
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ME LOVE SWEDEN!!! They made a smart move not joining the maffia.
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big
from lsg on 2003-09-15 06:42 [#00863535]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag
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mistahkurtz: i dont think not joing the eu leading to world war 3 is a scenario that is very likely to happen, furthermore: arent you a klingon and dying to die honorfully?
nacmat: in the future local customs will have to become regional ones, or some technical term for that. i dont think losing cultures has much to do with a eu perse. globalization somehow is a natural proces, just work on not loosing you're own peoples customs and stuff: learn to speak spanish for instance.
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:48 [#00863540]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #00863535
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When i mentioned WWII i was replying to posts that declare that europe isn't a worthwhile project. Of course Sweden is a democratic country and if if doesn't want the euro we should respect its population decision. It just seems to me to be a great shame that european construction is delayed (and its hould be accelarated to counter the totalitarian madness of the US) by nations that think that it is in there best interest to remain isolated from what is the greatest achievement of 20th century europe and a very good way to bring nations together and guard their prospertity.
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big
from lsg on 2003-09-15 06:53 [#00863544]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag
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well the current eu doesnt have itself straighted out: intern quarrels, so that might be something to work on first
eventually everybody will join.. methinks
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:57 [#00863547]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #00863544
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oh yeah, the union is till bloody disorganised over some issues, personally i am far more interested by the political side of things (i actually disapprove of many liberalisation policies the EU has come up with in the economic field) and european enlargement to the east. Europe should never be a super state or a US style federation but a common foreign and monetary policy would be wonderful.
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nacmat
on 2003-09-15 08:48 [#00863655]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker
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this is a very interesting thread to read
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DirtyPriest
from Copenhagen (Denmark) on 2003-09-15 09:05 [#00863673]
Points: 5499 Status: Lurker
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I'm totally in for the eu, and i wish the danes will change their minds.
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Oddioblender
from Fort Worth, TX (United States) on 2003-09-15 09:08 [#00863676]
Points: 9601 Status: Lurker
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i would insert a witty comment here, but i'm not european, let alone do i live in sweden, so i will refrain.
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danbrusca
from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 15:54 [#00864185]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461
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Closer European integration is a timebomb. History shows us that when people with different national identities are brought together under one governing authority they sooner or later try to reassert their independence, often violently.
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Monoid
from one source all things depend on 2003-09-15 15:59 [#00864192]
Points: 11010 Status: Lurker
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I want seyx
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Key_Secret
from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 16:03 [#00864195]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular
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I voted NO.
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sfj
from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:12 [#00864208]
Points: 117 Status: Regular
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I'm all for closer European Integration.
However... ...scrap teh CAP!
Also: First post!
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:14 [#00864215]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864185
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If they are denied their cultural and ethnic identities, their history, that is true but it hardly applies to the EU. We're not talking about Tito's Yugoslavia or Gorby's Soviet Union, and all european policies are arrived at by large consensus.
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X-tomatic
from ze war room on 2003-09-15 16:17 [#00864226]
Points: 2901 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461
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"will guard europe against the possibility of a great european war ever happening in the furture,that binds peoples that once hated, fought and
massacre each other for centuries,that guarantees economic prosperity, cultural revival and friendship between nations
is not worth fighting for?"
Sorry, but one advice: quit the school where they teach you this fantastic nonsense now and get with reality.
I honestly don't feel the slightest bit more connected to Spain, Germany or Italy ever since the Euro got introduced.
Cultural revival should be rephrased into cultural degeneration, friendship cannot be forced on one another and hate will be kept under the false wings of unity, cropped up until it can no longer be contained, resulting in an explosion of hate > see former yugoslavia.
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humppmaster rex
from High Wycombe (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:26 [#00864254]
Points: 3 Status: Lurker
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The Swedes have got it down. Listen to your people and shoot hoops, not brothers.
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danbrusca
from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:29 [#00864260]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864215
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Despite appearances, it actually has very little to do with cultural and ethnic identity, and more to do with power.
The human tendency is to want power as close to the individual as possible. The closer the base of power, the more control people feel they have over their own affairs.
Push more and more power to a European level and when things go bad people will feel more helpless and seek to draw that power back towards themselves where they feel they can better exercise it and solve their problems.
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:29 [#00864262]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to X-tomatic: #00864226
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Well i'm not sure where you are from boyo but if you had any idea of the amount of cultural exchange programs that go on between the two nations that were once upon a time, worst enemies you would take back that comment! Germany and France have fought 3 major wars in the past 130 years and now we have a franco german tv channel ARTE, erasmus programs between the two countries, hoards of german tourists drinking our wine, learning our language and enjoying our countryside every summer! On a superficial level stereotypes haven't changed much but I can safely say, THERE WILL NEVER EVER BE ANOTHER FRANCO-GERMAN WAR THANKS TO EUROPEAN INTER-DEPENDENCE! TADA!
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:32 [#00864264]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864260
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It won't happen, the process of european integration is irreversible. Any nation seeking to withdraw itself from the legal/economic and political absorbtion into the EU will commit suicide.
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sfj
from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:33 [#00864269]
Points: 117 Status: Regular
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The only way Europe can survive as a cultural label is to have some 'x' outside Europe which is superficially similar but sufficiently alien (politically) that people would wish to define themselves as Europeans distinguish themselves from 'x'.
The role of 'x' is provided by the USA. Everything else is too alien, too 'other.' I find my fondness for Europe as an identity to be proportional to my alienation from Bush's America.
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:36 [#00864272]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to sfj: #00864269
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I agree with you there, but it simply isn't true that there is SOME common feeling of european identity. You just have to look at the history of ideas to realize that each nation has influenced another at some time in a big way: just look at Napoleon, welcomed by ecstatic Prussians/Italians/Spaniards!
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big
from lsg on 2003-09-15 16:40 [#00864278]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag
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i'd like to say nacmat: thanks key_secret: i believe we'd had gotten closer if there'd been vote YES
x-tomatic: your cultural degeneration i've already commented on: national cultures will have to become regional ones
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Key_Secret
from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 16:54 [#00864300]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00864278
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big > You're a great guy, and getting closer to you (in a way) was one of the good things about voting YES...
But, well, I just believe in certain things...
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danbrusca
from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:54 [#00864302]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864264
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I am United Kingdom of Borg?
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sfj
from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:56 [#00864311]
Points: 117 Status: Regular
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How does everyone feel about post 2007/8 expansion? I feel we should wait for a while and work on 'deepening' rather than 'broadening' the union.
Cut and paste from eurocoins.co.uk:
May 1st 2004:-
Cyprus Czech Republic Estonia Hungary Latvia Lithuania Malta Poland Slovakia Slovenia
The following two countries are also strong potential candidates for joining, and are thought likely to join in 2007/8:-
Bulgaria Romania
Another three countries are likely to follow shortly after:-
Bosnia Herzegovina Croatia Serbia
Turkey One of the biggest questionmarks remains over Turkey, with a population of over 67 million. Turkey is obviously an important potential member, although there are a number of problems to be solved.
The following countries would probably benefit from joining, but their possible entry is less likely than those listed above:-
Belarus Iceland Macedonia Moldova Norway Ukraine
Conjecture According to the Sunday Times, the following could be joining in 30 years from now:-
Albania Algeria Egypt Israel Libya Morocco Tunisia
Other possibilities: Greenland (former member- technically on the American continent and not a country)
An independent Quebec Canada Lebanon Syria The Caucasus states An independent Palestine Kazakhstan Iran Russia Switzerland
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:57 [#00864313]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864302
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You mean the 51 rst state?
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danbrusca
from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:57 [#00864314]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864264
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So, are you saying that this great European Union will be maintained by fear of what would happen to countries who left it?
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:00 [#00864317]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to sfj: #00864311
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HOLY COW! Thats a bit much! I don't think Turkey should join since it has such a terrible human rights record and should work on it. Belarus is still a soviet style dictatorship, Russia should not join as it is too vast, Morocco, same for turkey and too culturally different from the rest of europe. Ex Yugolsavian states: yes yes and YES but improve your economies laddies. Norway, YES, Iceland YES YES... Like I had any influence on this!
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big
from lsg on 2003-09-15 17:02 [#00864320]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag
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key_s: yes it had to do with politics and stuff this politics and learning just makes me get cut of from myself. if find there's a gap between my mind and my feelings. that was kinda what m?y poem was about: getting fucked by learning and getting relieved by becoming, zen-like, nothing and everything, i like my poem
thanks key_: i'd like to get as close to you as heterosexually possible as well
je bent mijn maatje tot aan het gaatje hahaha
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:02 [#00864321]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864314
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No, adhesion should be motivated by the will to contribute to the European project and to improve a nations economic prospects. I'm simply saying that countries cannot afford to drop out once they are fully in. If there is any doubt in joing the EU then a ntion should abstain from doing so.
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Key_Secret
from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 17:03 [#00864325]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00864320
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I don't speak dutch, but thanks :)
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evolume
from seattle (United States) on 2003-09-15 17:06 [#00864329]
Points: 10965 Status: Regular
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i'm an american and therefore ignorant of global events that don't concern tits or oil.
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MistahKurtz
from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:07 [#00864332]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329
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what about oily tits? MOU HAHAHAHAHA
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pachi
from yo momma (United States) on 2003-09-15 17:11 [#00864340]
Points: 8984 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329
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me too, but not quite as ignorant as others.
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TonyFish
from the realm of our dreams on 2003-09-15 17:12 [#00864343]
Points: 3349 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329
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I don't care much for oil...
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