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Sweden: a let down
 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 05:06 [#00863451]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker



How bloody sad that the Swedes, still too cosy and mentally
numbed by their astounding welfare system haven't got the
political vision or courage to join the great European
project. Nothing much has changed since the golden years of
collaborative "neutrality" during WWII. Guess i'll be
keeping my euros for estonia then.


 

offline tolstoyed from the ocean on 2003-09-15 05:09 [#00863454]
Points: 50073 Status: Moderator



smart people...swedes
i wish we'd be that smart...


 

offline princo from Shitty City (Geelong) (Australia) on 2003-09-15 05:15 [#00863455]
Points: 13411 Status: Lurker



We are yellow, We are blue..
We are Sweden, who are you?!


 

offline TonyFish from the realm of our dreams on 2003-09-15 05:18 [#00863456]
Points: 3349 Status: Lurker | Followup to tolstoyed: #00863454



not


 

offline nacmat on 2003-09-15 05:20 [#00863457]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker



globalization sucks


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 05:26 [#00863461]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker



Wow, you really impress me guys: you think that a political
organisation of the size and depth of europe built in less
than 60 years and that will guard europe against the
possibility of a great european war ever happening in the
furture, that binds peoples that once hated, fought and
massacre each other for centuries, that guarantees economic
prosperity, cultural revival and friendship between nations
is not worth fighting for? I'm sure if you had lived in the
era of gas chambers and killing fields you would have a
different opinion and think twice about cheap "globalisation
sucks" messages that are often maske nationalistic cries and
racist tendancies.


 

offline mortsto-x from Trondheim/Bodø (Norway) on 2003-09-15 05:27 [#00863464]
Points: 8062 Status: Lurker



Yeh. They did the right thing, I think.


 

offline ambsace from canaDUH. on 2003-09-15 05:28 [#00863467]
Points: 6326 Status: Lurker



i wish i followed current world events and such.


 

offline iBAN from Brisvegas (Australia) on 2003-09-15 05:30 [#00863470]
Points: 334 Status: Lurker



the eu is a big scam, europes gonna end up as fucked up as
america...its so sad


 

offline nacmat on 2003-09-15 05:35 [#00863477]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461



I like diferent cultures and customs... I am no racist... I
like inmigration in my country cos I think that fusion of
cultures is great.

but still... globalisation sucks

just imo


 

offline Laserbeak from Netherlands, The on 2003-09-15 05:35 [#00863479]
Points: 2670 Status: Lurker



We didn't even get to vote if we wanted to join or not :(

Anyway, good choice Swedes


 

offline ISayNothing from Mt. Pus (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 05:36 [#00863481]
Points: 575 Status: Regular



wish i had a very smart comment on this.


 

offline Jarworski from The Grove (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 05:49 [#00863489]
Points: 10836 Status: Lurker



What's a Sweden?


 

offline ambsace from canaDUH. on 2003-09-15 05:50 [#00863490]
Points: 6326 Status: Lurker | Followup to Jarworski: #00863489



i dunno, but if it's as cute as your turtle...

i think i'll melt. aw.


 

offline mc_303_beatz from Glasgow, Scotland on 2003-09-15 05:59 [#00863496]
Points: 3386 Status: Regular | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461



time to dismount your high condescending horse methinks..


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:20 [#00863515]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to mc_303_beatz: #00863496



Why? Because i think that political and economic unity is
preferable to war and chaos? Because i subscribe to a
mainstream current of ideas that refuses to be blinded by
petty navel gazing nationalism?


 

offline Archrival on 2003-09-15 06:24 [#00863520]
Points: 4265 Status: Lurker



ME LOVE SWEDEN!!! They made a smart move not joining the
maffia.


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-15 06:42 [#00863535]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



mistahkurtz: i dont think not joing the eu leading to world
war 3 is a scenario that is very likely to happen,
furthermore: arent you a klingon and dying to die
honorfully?
nacmat: in the future local customs will have to become
regional ones, or some technical term for that. i dont think
losing cultures has much to do with a eu perse.
globalization somehow is a natural proces, just work on not
loosing you're own peoples customs and stuff: learn to speak
spanish for instance.


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:48 [#00863540]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #00863535



When i mentioned WWII i was replying to posts that declare
that europe isn't a worthwhile project. Of course Sweden is
a democratic country and if if doesn't want the euro we
should respect its population decision. It just seems to me
to be a great shame that european construction is delayed
(and its hould be accelarated to counter the totalitarian
madness of the US) by nations that think that it is in there
best interest to remain isolated from what is the greatest
achievement of 20th century europe and a very good way to
bring nations together and guard their prospertity.


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-15 06:53 [#00863544]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



well the current eu doesnt have itself straighted out:
intern quarrels, so that might be something to work on
first
eventually everybody will join.. methinks


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 06:57 [#00863547]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to big: #00863544



oh yeah, the union is till bloody disorganised over some
issues, personally i am far more interested by the political
side of things (i actually disapprove of many liberalisation
policies the EU has come up with in the economic field) and
european enlargement to the east. Europe should never be a
super state or a US style federation but a common foreign
and monetary policy would be wonderful.


 

offline nacmat on 2003-09-15 08:48 [#00863655]
Points: 31271 Status: Lurker



this is a very interesting thread to read


 

offline DirtyPriest from Copenhagen (Denmark) on 2003-09-15 09:05 [#00863673]
Points: 5499 Status: Lurker



I'm totally in for the eu, and i wish the danes will change
their minds.


 

offline Oddioblender from Fort Worth, TX (United States) on 2003-09-15 09:08 [#00863676]
Points: 9601 Status: Lurker



i would insert a witty comment here, but i'm not european,
let alone do i live in sweden, so i will refrain.


 

offline danbrusca from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 15:54 [#00864185]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461



Closer European integration is a timebomb. History shows us
that when people with different national identities are
brought together under one governing authority they sooner
or later try to reassert their independence, often
violently.


 

offline Monoid from one source all things depend on 2003-09-15 15:59 [#00864192]
Points: 11010 Status: Lurker



I want seyx


 

offline Key_Secret from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 16:03 [#00864195]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular



I voted NO.


 

offline sfj from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:12 [#00864208]
Points: 117 Status: Regular



I'm all for closer European Integration.

However...
...scrap teh CAP!

Also:
First post!



 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:14 [#00864215]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864185



If they are denied their cultural and ethnic identities,
their history, that is true but it hardly applies to the EU.
We're not talking about Tito's Yugoslavia or Gorby's Soviet
Union, and all european policies are arrived at by large
consensus.


 

offline X-tomatic from ze war room on 2003-09-15 16:17 [#00864226]
Points: 2901 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00863461



"will guard europe against the
possibility of a great european war ever happening in the
furture,
that binds peoples that once hated, fought
and
massacre each other for centuries,that guarantees economic
prosperity, cultural revival and friendship between nations

is not worth fighting for?"

Sorry, but one advice: quit the school where they teach you
this fantastic nonsense now and get with reality.
I honestly don't feel the slightest bit more connected to
Spain, Germany or Italy ever since the Euro got introduced.

Cultural revival should be rephrased into cultural
degeneration, friendship cannot be forced on one another and
hate will be kept under the false wings of unity, cropped up
until it can no longer be contained, resulting in an
explosion of hate > see former yugoslavia.


 

offline humppmaster rex from High Wycombe (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:26 [#00864254]
Points: 3 Status: Lurker



The Swedes have got it down. Listen to your people and shoot
hoops, not brothers.


 

offline danbrusca from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:29 [#00864260]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864215



Despite appearances, it actually has very little to do with
cultural and ethnic identity, and more to do with power.

The human tendency is to want power as close to the
individual as possible. The closer the base of power, the
more control people feel they have over their own affairs.

Push more and more power to a European level and when things
go bad people will feel more helpless and seek to draw that
power back towards themselves where they feel they can
better exercise it and solve their problems.


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:29 [#00864262]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to X-tomatic: #00864226



Well i'm not sure where you are from boyo but if you had any
idea of the amount of cultural exchange programs that go on
between the two nations that were once upon a time, worst
enemies you would take back that comment! Germany and France
have fought 3 major wars in the past 130 years and now we
have a franco german tv channel ARTE, erasmus programs
between the two countries, hoards of german tourists
drinking our wine, learning our language and enjoying our
countryside every summer! On a superficial level stereotypes
haven't changed much but I can safely say, THERE WILL NEVER
EVER BE ANOTHER FRANCO-GERMAN WAR THANKS TO EUROPEAN
INTER-DEPENDENCE! TADA!


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:32 [#00864264]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864260



It won't happen, the process of european integration is
irreversible. Any nation seeking to withdraw itself from the
legal/economic and political absorbtion into the EU will
commit suicide.


 

offline sfj from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:33 [#00864269]
Points: 117 Status: Regular



The only way Europe can survive as a cultural label is to
have some 'x' outside Europe which is superficially similar
but sufficiently alien (politically) that people would wish
to define themselves as Europeans distinguish themselves
from 'x'.

The role of 'x' is provided by the USA. Everything else is
too alien, too 'other.' I find my fondness for Europe as an
identity to be proportional to my alienation from Bush's
America.


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:36 [#00864272]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to sfj: #00864269



I agree with you there, but it simply isn't true that there
is SOME common feeling of european identity. You just have
to look at the history of ideas to realize that each nation
has influenced another at some time in a big way: just look
at Napoleon, welcomed by ecstatic
Prussians/Italians/Spaniards!


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-15 16:40 [#00864278]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



i'd like to say
nacmat: thanks
key_secret: i believe we'd had gotten closer if there'd been
vote YES
x-tomatic: your cultural degeneration i've already commented
on: national cultures will have to become regional ones


 

offline Key_Secret from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 16:54 [#00864300]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00864278



big > You're a great guy, and getting closer to you (in a
way) was one of the good things about voting YES...
But, well, I just believe in certain things...


 

offline danbrusca from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:54 [#00864302]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864264



I am United Kingdom of Borg?


 

offline sfj from Durham (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:56 [#00864311]
Points: 117 Status: Regular



How does everyone feel about post 2007/8 expansion? I feel
we should wait for a while and work on 'deepening' rather
than 'broadening' the union.

Cut and paste from eurocoins.co.uk:

May 1st 2004:-

Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Hungary
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia

The following two countries are also strong potential
candidates for joining, and are thought likely to join in
2007/8:-

Bulgaria
Romania

Another three countries are likely to follow shortly after:-


Bosnia Herzegovina
Croatia
Serbia

Turkey
One of the biggest questionmarks remains over Turkey, with a
population of over 67 million. Turkey is obviously an
important potential member, although there are a number of
problems to be solved.

The following countries would probably benefit from joining,
but their possible entry is less likely than those listed
above:-

Belarus
Iceland
Macedonia
Moldova
Norway
Ukraine

Conjecture
According to the Sunday Times, the following could be
joining in 30 years from now:-

Albania
Algeria
Egypt
Israel
Libya
Morocco
Tunisia

Other possibilities:
Greenland (former member- technically on the American
continent and not a country)
An independent Quebec
Canada
Lebanon
Syria
The Caucasus states
An independent Palestine
Kazakhstan
Iran
Russia
Switzerland


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 16:57 [#00864313]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864302



You mean the 51 rst state?


 

offline danbrusca from Derbyshire (United Kingdom) on 2003-09-15 16:57 [#00864314]
Points: 4570 Status: Lurker | Followup to MistahKurtz: #00864264



So, are you saying that this great European Union will be
maintained by fear of what would happen to countries who
left it?


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:00 [#00864317]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to sfj: #00864311



HOLY COW! Thats a bit much! I don't think Turkey should join
since it has such a terrible human rights record and should
work on it. Belarus is still a soviet style dictatorship,
Russia should not join as it is too vast, Morocco, same for
turkey and too culturally different from the rest of europe.
Ex Yugolsavian states: yes yes and YES but improve your
economies laddies. Norway, YES, Iceland YES YES... Like I
had any influence on this!


 

offline big from lsg on 2003-09-15 17:02 [#00864320]
Points: 23754 Status: Regular | Show recordbag



key_s: yes it had to do with politics and stuff
this politics and learning just makes me get cut of from
myself. if find there's a gap between my mind and my
feelings. that was kinda what m?y poem was about: getting
fucked by learning and getting relieved by becoming,
zen-like, nothing and everything, i like my poem
thanks key_: i'd like to get as close to you as
heterosexually possible as well
je bent mijn maatje tot aan het gaatje hahaha



 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:02 [#00864321]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to danbrusca: #00864314



No, adhesion should be motivated by the will to contribute
to the European project and to improve a nations economic
prospects. I'm simply saying that countries cannot afford to
drop out once they are fully in. If there is any doubt in
joing the EU then a ntion should abstain from doing so.


 

offline Key_Secret from Sverige (Sweden) on 2003-09-15 17:03 [#00864325]
Points: 9325 Status: Regular | Followup to big: #00864320



I don't speak dutch,
but thanks :)


 

offline evolume from seattle (United States) on 2003-09-15 17:06 [#00864329]
Points: 10965 Status: Regular



i'm an american and therefore ignorant of global events that
don't concern tits or oil.


 

offline MistahKurtz from Paris (France) on 2003-09-15 17:07 [#00864332]
Points: 327 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329



what about oily tits? MOU HAHAHAHAHA


 

offline pachi from yo momma (United States) on 2003-09-15 17:11 [#00864340]
Points: 8984 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329



me too, but not quite as ignorant as others.


 

offline TonyFish from the realm of our dreams on 2003-09-15 17:12 [#00864343]
Points: 3349 Status: Lurker | Followup to evolume: #00864329



I don't care much for oil...


 


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