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 (nobody)...and 589 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614128 Today 0 Topics 127542 |
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no elements of a recorded track can be "random" discuss. |
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yeah they can... e.g. if you use buzz there's a command where you can make the program put "random" notes or machinesettings into the track... However I do not believe in coincidence... if that's what you mean. |
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of course they can, not being random would imply there is a pattern or structured format. random is the absence of that, and I don't see how that's not possible? |
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haphazard maybe, but not random |
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cos your computer is doing the 'random' thing. how random is a computer |
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Hey cygnus where you been? |
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iT depends on how one defines random. It's generally defined as something thats impossible to predict, so nothing on a recorded track can ever be random, since you can predict how its going to sound by listening to it previously. |
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i think your full of shit |
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i don't really like that definition of random. use a different one. you blatantly have about 50 in your head right now. |
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Reply to blrr #1: very, if its Johnnys computer. It doesn't practically matter if a computer is "random" or not - a few truely are and work by sensing random thermal noise in the chip. Most just use a psudo-random number generator which produces numbers that are only non-random in very limited ways, and very random in almost all useful ways. Reply to blrr #2: I'm not sure I'm at liberty to have more than one definition, if we're going to remain self-consistant. I don't know of any other definition of random that's as good as the one I quoted earlier. |
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Ah, an interesting development from http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RandomNumber.html : "It is impossible to produce an arbitrarily long string of random digits and prove it is random" - thus even if you're at a live performance, its totally impossible to tell if something is random or not, even though it may be. |
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at last, someone other than me can kill the thread. |
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after all, isn't what we call "random" something driven by forces/elements/stuff/etc. we cannot (or at least not ALL) predict/analyse, sometimes a LOT of little forces/elementsetc. and all? i don't think "true" randomness, i mean total randomness out of nothing, exists anyway. now... at a more general level and to discuss randomness in recorded tracks... you can make a track randomly generated i think, with some stuffs and bleeps you do not have control over... (for example, , based on an idea by me and made/recorded by dariusgriffin - lots of musical stuff on websites launched randomly at the same time ; )) i'd go further and say ALL elements when recording have a little part of random. because we're humans and have imperfections when playing things, even when we make the tracks out of machines. and even machines have imperfections anyway. even if the randomness can be very very little, it's always there. but, of course, once it is recorded, it is not random anymore; no elements of the recording still "move", they're fixated... at least, not what's ON the record support - if it's not damaged (scratches or etc.). but you can hear different things in playing the same track twice, depending on your mood, your attention, the player, the listening environment, etc... lots of elements can influencate your listening, and this whole changing conditions are pretty random! so... in conclusion, i'd say that i want scottish empire biscuits and a glass of iced strawberry sparkling water. |
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what if you choose the notes by rolling a die? |
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"randomly at the same time" thats sort of not making sense much me to. |
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Rolling a die isn't random - computer programs exist that will analyse a video of the die as it leaves your hand and tell you want number it will land on before it hits the table. Similar devices also have been made for roulette wheels, which is financially interesting since you can still place bets once the ball has been thrown. |
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i don't believe in random |
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what do you mean? |
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fucking determinists. die!! |
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a transcendental sequence of numbers like pi (3.1415926....etc) is 'random', but again, it is derived from the ration of the circumference to the diameter... |
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I know what you mean but I don't want to discuss since I can't be arrsed, I'm going to bed soon. |
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i mean i don't think TRUE randomness can ever occur. you can generate "random" numbers from a computer, but they really just come from a random number seed or something. (i don't think i know enough about this to be talking about it) |
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maybe i'm not sure whether i heard this or not but maybe random numbers would come from, like, the 10000th of seconds of the present time... |
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re mappatazee: The sequence of digits of pi are _not_ random, since they, as you say, are derived from something known. They are however (to the best of our knowledge) 'normal' (and I think also 'absolutely normal'). This is an important property which a random number sequence must also have, but not every normal number is random. A 'normal' number is one in which every digit occurs with equal frequency in the long run, as does every combination of 2 consecutive digits, of 3 digits, of 4 digits etc. etc. An 'absolutely normal' number is one where this is true for any base (binary, base 3, base 4...base 10,... etc) |
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fnxncvdvnnvfxnvxfdsd Are these really random characters that I have just typed. Because as a typist, I know which keys are on each side of the keyboard?!? |
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they're not random |
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life is random becoz at the end (talking of computers) the humans use them, and humans are random too...the most random creatures on earth its the same for a track, it can it is random, could be by instinct or not, but random yeah |
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what? |
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re boffboy: yeah, the decimals of pi are normal. I was reading about transcendental numbers recently. |
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for blrr : life is random becoz at the end (talking of computers) the humans use them, and humans are random too...the most random creatures on earth its the same for a track, it can it is random, could be by instinct or not, but random yeah |
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re handsoverthecart: Yes, you're right about random number seeds in computers - most applications don't need really random numbers, and so a mathematical algorithm will do. This will look fairly random, but will not be - it will be predictable if you have the algorithm, and may also exhibit a few flaws (perhaps the digit 9 may come up 0.1% too frequently, or someting). Where the randomness is important, the random number seed is initialised with the number of milliseconds since the system booted up, or some similar figure, but still are generated by an algorithm that is predictable. Where randomness really does matter is in cryptography - PGP gets you to 'scribble' your mouse around to generate some numbers that couldn't possibly be predicted by looking at the PGP random number generating algorithm. The most often cited example of real random numbers is radioactive decay timings, which are impossible to predict (and would require a major leap forward in the understanding of physics to do so, if it ever can be done). For encodings such as communications links between major political powers, boxes which have a lump of radioactive material, a geiger-counter, and a computer in them generate truely random numbers for the encryption process. |
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ahh I see, I see... |
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thanks for repeating the same post again. that was good of you "its the same for a track, it can it is random, could be by instinct or not, but random yeah" what does that mean? |
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Nelson from the simpsons : Haaa !! |
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Nelson is a dickhead. Anyway, on to more interesting things than eating glass: the normality of pi: Has pi actually been proved normal? If it has it must have been quite recent? |
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ok i ment its kinda always random, coz the music even if it comes from a machine is manipulate by people. they can do their music with (by was not good) their instinct, it makes good music in general, at least interesting, or not, but the random is always there, we can change our mind so easily, etc... |
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why are so many people here into math? ' _ ' |
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i dunno but boffboy you kinda scare me..no offense tho |
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I commonly scare lots of things, including but not limited to small children and garden gnomes. No offense taken.... |
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The point glass_eater makes a few posts up is an interesting one - its very difficult to see why an artist does a particular track. The influences (in my case at least) are often 'by chance' - a tune I've heard in the street, or an idea from a meandering conversation. So in a strange kind of way, even some very predictable music using no computer random numbers at all in its creation, is almost random on a larger scale, because the train of thoughts and actions that lead to the track being created is so complex. |
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hey you get it :D thx btw! |
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