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 (nobody)...and 459 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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uh... "For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on," Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in Vanity Fair magazine's July issue. |
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too many media persons about for the 'allies' to slip some WMDs into Iraq for 'discovery' eh? |
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no joke... ; P |
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Course there aren't any. They just made that up to sway public opinion in favour of the war. Still, worth it to displace Saddam, eh? ;) |
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why? replacing one corrupt dictatorial regime with another: what's worse, the new one operates under the guise of 'democracy' and 'freedom'. better to Know Thy Enemy. Like Malcolm X said, the straight-out racist deserves more respect, because he's being open and honest. |
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I fail to see what's "racist" about toppling Sadam's regime... |
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he was just making a comparison... it wasnt a literal connection he was making... |
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Ceri JC > yes, replace "racist" by "corrupt dictatorial regime". |
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it sure is amazingly hip to distrust everything that america does now days. i very serriously doubt that the US could do anything at all and not get bashed to peices for it. our gov't takes shit when they stay out of situations, and they catch shit for getting involved in situations. any good that comes out of our involvement/uninvolvement is disreguarded as a hidden plot to further some secret agenda. why were there relatively no activists protesting the fact that saddam's regime was oppressing and killing thousands for years, decades even? why don't people jump all the fuck over the UN when they turn the other way and let mass slaughters happen all over the world? i'm certainly no right-wing US fanatical supporter, i'm as scared as the next guy of bush's 'either your with us or your against us' mentality, but, the left seems so amazing opposed to even trying to look past their own biases, that they're begining to turn me away from their viewpoints as much as the war hawks. i know i'll get flamed for this, but, whatever. |
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perhaps it will be good to oust saddam. maybe Iraq will flourish now but the main point of criticism, is that this war was never about liberating the iraqi people. you think america gives even the slightest damn about them? not in the least. americas involvement is personal, and financial. there are plenty of places that call for outside intervention, to save the oppressed people... but we turn out shoulder... because to help, we would get nothing out of it. |
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epohs... The people support UN - U.S.A. does not. They are the leading country in rejecting resolutions by vetoing them down one by one, even resolutions supported by ALL the UN memberstates, except Israel ofcourse... Saddam has been able to maintain his strong grip around the necks of Iraqis in big part because of the U.S. proposed sanctions that has devastaded civilian life for ten years. People had to rely on regular foodrations from Saddam to even survive, making him even more in control of the whole situation. If you listen closely to the news right now, especially the independent media, you'll hear reports about how the U.S. is arranging for Iraqi state owned companies to be converted into the holy privatised form that the Bush admin. is so keen on. Amerian companies will get the money and the contracts, American citizens will pay for the bombs that paved the way for this shitty deal which the Iraqis themselves have no saying in. Who do you think you are, how dare you? Just imagine, please, if someone came into your land and did the same thing. But American lives are worth more than Iraqi ones I guess...or Vietnamese or Nicaraguan or Kosovoan or Afghan or Chilean or Somalian or Sudanese or Cambodian... |
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I guess no one here supported Sadam's cruel regime. The point is that there are a lot more cruel regimes that the USA does not attack. Why is that? Why isn't america doing anything about cruel civil wars in Africa? There is not too much economical benefits with messing around in that area. I mean, all big reconstruction contracts have been given to companies that have managers that are close friends to well known republicans. The fact that there's a lot of oil beneath Iraqi surface and that the only ministry building left intact was the ministry of oil, that explains a lot (well, I had my mind made up, it just proved that I, among many others, was right from the start). |
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"If you listen closely to the news right now, especially the independent media" i'm sure i could find reports from a number of news sources that would support any and all sides of the debate. every news agency has it's biases that affect how it tells the news. as i said before i certainly am no die hard supporter of the current administration. my point was that it seems america is in a catch 22 type situation. anything we do or don't do is automatically going to damn us as the great satan by some faction. what is the answer? isolationism? then we're cursed for not using our massive power to help others. involvement? then we're beat uppon for inforcing our capitalist ideals. if sanctions weren't impossed do you think things would've been better in iraq? i mean should saddam have just been left alone and everyone hope he came to his senses? i sure as hell don't know, and i don't want to be the one makes those types of decisions. but, i haven't heard anyone coming up with any better ideas. just ranting about how america is leading the world straight to a hellish end (which very well may be true) but rarely offering any alternative paths. |
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and yeah, i agree, there's a lot more to be dealt with in the world than iraq, some that seem to me to be more threatening. i doubt i know the whole storry though. i'm willing to bet that it had some to do with oil, some to do with dubya's daddy, and some to do with other things that are so classified we may never know. i just think it's a bit strange that america is both expected to deal with oppresive regimes and at the same time stay completely out of other people's business. |
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Yeah, its better now the Iraqis have no electricity, clean water or sewerage and are being shot at by US soldiers for holding demonstrations. Now they can really taste freedom eh? |
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"why were there relatively no activists protesting the fact that saddam's regime was oppressing and killing thousands for years, decades even?" The left was. Just around the time that the US and UK governments were arming Saddam. |
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"my point was that it seems america is in a catch 22 type situation. anything we do or don't do is automatically going to damn us as the great satan by some faction." I think the past 50 years the US has been mistrusted (if not hated) by large parts of the world... it's just now the American people are realising it's nothing to do with jealousy but to do with how you're foriegn policy is implemented. I'm sure Rome went throught the same thing. |
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Yeah, Morgoth makes a good point with America not doing anything about equally vicious leaders - and sometimes even supporting them. For example, the Pinochet coup and the asassination of a Chilean general who had heard of the plans to remove the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government..."No, we can't have that, a socialist government on the doorsteps of our land" said Nixon and a series of events unfolded that led up to the Watergate incident. ("..." is not an actual quote) And the U.S. shipments of weapons, including fighter jets, tanks, ships, helicopters, ships and ammo, to the Indonesian gov. when they went into East Timor, a small country with a population of largely farmers living a peaceful life, and commited genocide killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. When Indonesia began to run out of weapons Kissinger sent them more... How is that for supporting terrorist actions??? |
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just for the record, everything i've read about kissinger makes me believe he should certainly be tried as a war criminal. |
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Lies it's all lies. the crazies are leading us! You think for one minute Bush or Blair give a shit about the Iraqi people? I say bullshit. They care about oil. It's so blatently obvious. I'm surprised and bemused at the roise-tinted spectacles people wear to not realise the corruption of these people. Saddam was a US ally, he fail to comply with them by attacking Kuwait, so the US introduce sanctions, killing an estimated 1million people. Call that liberation? The concrete facts are there. People should read up on these issues before supporting their leaders actions. Go to www.noamchomsky.com or www.michaelmoore.com and read it yourself |
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you mean, that news footage I saw of mr blair in his white shirt, expressively waving his arms and smiling was all a front? what a SHOCK! :O |
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I've not read much about him, but I think there seems to be much evidence supporting that. However, now that the U.S. refuses to let anyone try their citizens for crimes of war there's not much of a chance that this will happen. |
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Yes marlowe. Though he did look rather dapper in his Armani suit and he really convinced me about those weopans. What a great leader we have. really sincere, honest and decent man. |
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I've always believed in the sincerity of mr blair - those people who accuse him of being a slimeball and just being UNPATRIOTIC! because our government is our country and they are there to help and protect us!! |
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Anyone hear the news about a brithish soldier who've just come home from Iraq and went to develop some photos he took there - he's now being interrogated because the pictures showed beatings of Iraqi P.O.W.s |
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I have nothing against Tony Blair's choice of designer label wardrobe... it's just I believe him to be the anti-Christ incarnate. Y'all worried about Bush?! Pfft! Look at the 5th picture down... |
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brithish...hmm...must learn to calm down while I type. |
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Yeah, mental isn't it? |
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Why arent the american people pissed off about all this ?! I mean, Clinton got almost impeached because of a Blowjob, and George Bush risks the life of thausands of men and women in an unjust war......and gets away with.....what has the world come too.... |
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I'm not sure why the american people as a whole aren't more pissed off about the fact that it's looking more and more like the bush administration at the very least exaggerated their certainty about saddam having WMD... if not completely lied all together. from the very beginning i had wished that dubya would've just came out with the straight reasons. i would've been more supportive of the war if he'd just said something like “this tyrant controls a vast wealth in oil while completely starving his people, he's a psychopathic oppressive dictator, and i don't like him because he tried to kill my daddy!” but, i doubt either the US public, or the international community would've taken kindly to that blunt of a statement. probably even less so than they did to his exaggeration/distortion of the facts. I'd say people were probably more tolerant of bush's recent slip up because he did a pretty good job of doing what he did under the guise of helping make the states and the world a safer place, and a much more livable place for the iraqi people. it's hard to argue how getting a blowjob from an intern helps anyone out but yourself. yeah, sanctions sucked ass... the majority of the people who were dying as a result of the UN endorsed sanctions were children; all the more reason to begin to take different steps to deal with the problem in iraq. my main question is what was the better way to deal with the problem? continued sanctions while saddam continues to steal from the oil for food program and starve little kids? beef up inspections for six months or a year while thousands of innocent civilians die every month painfully from starvation and disease? i'm not saying that war is cool by any means. and as i've said before, many of the bush policies scare the pants off of me. was there a better way to deal with the problem in iraq? most certainly, there always is... but, would it've been better to debate endlessly about what that might be, and still possibly make the wr |
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ong decision? i kinda think not. i actually think george bush made an alright decision with this one. i sure as shit wouldn'tve wanted to be in his shoes. i mean, i guess i'm running on the assumption that most everyone agrees that what was happening in iraq was pretty terrible. there were a couple of options; let things go on the way they were going (sanctions, coruption, starvation), remove sanctions and allow saddam free reign, drastically increased pressure with the real threat of war, or think of a better plan. i never heard anyone come up with with a better plan, so, i think the choice that was made was the better choice to be made. |
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