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 Now online (1)dariusgriffin ...and 220 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2614224 Today 6 Topics 127549 |
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?stor y=399024 Think again. |
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haha got ya! |
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:D :P |
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does any of that really suprise you...like make you think again about anything? |
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no, not really |
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yeah but we here have no idea how much censorship there is in the US |
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me neither, i mean, he was free to have a press conference about his views broadcast on c-span. |
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who? |
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it doesn't surprise me at all, i always thought there'd have to be a lot of it there.. |
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no I mean censorship covering up articles like that.. |
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its not censorship you twit you have freedom of speech to say whatever you want... however there are consqueces to what you say.... if you say america is like nazi germany and your boss doesn't like it and fires you thats not censorship.... thats why shit like the klukluxklan is legal... |
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tim robbins |
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many, many people in the united states are not aware of how the news is distorted and manipulated, and there has for many years been a systematic attempt to link any left wing argument with soviet-style communism. children are taught propaganda as history here, and to criticize this is seen as anti-americanism. believe it or not, many americans are unwilling to accept that the government might even have an interest in deceiving the public at large. many people in the united states are in the dark. it's pointless to assign blame, though; the united states government (or more accurately, the global agenda it serves) has become the world's problem. |
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it is fucking censorship if they are doing it because they fear reprisals from the government (you twit)! |
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yeah man thats the kinda thing i'm saying |
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the flow of information in the united states is largely controlled by moneyed interests. occasionally a dissenting voice is brought out to be ridiculed. tim robbins spoke at a conference that was broadcast on c-span, and fox news, for example, spent the whole day attacking and ridiculing his comments. can you see how mccarthyism is not free speech? who will speak out if their lives, their jobs, their families are in jeopardy? we're not talking about people who are promoting racism (ku klux klan), we are talking about people promoting peace and human dignity. censure and sanctions are not appropriate in this instance. |
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it really infuriates me that in such a 'civilised' country this stuff can happen..a price that has to be paid do you think? |
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is it me or was that statement a complete contradiction? "it's pointless to assign blame, though; the united states government (or more accurately, the global agenda it serves) has become the world's problem. " of course a govenment is going to put its spin above all others. its nepotism in its highest form, and its very beleivable. if you are in the dark, then get out of it. so tim robbins doesn't go to the fucking baseball awards ceremony,, i was able to hear how he feels, and i agree with some of what he is saying. i'm free enough to read about all of your complaints from other parts of the world. the US doesn't have as open an information system as it portrays, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out where one stands. |
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maybe you aren't as much of a dupe though? |
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It doesn't really matter wether or not you will call ik censorship or not, the fact it that this should not be happening. And I believe Europe is not so bad as the US, but there are media-cover up things going on here as well... |
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that's right. but i'm not sure that what is going on here in the states is not censorship. why wouldn't it be? censorship is traditionally thought of as limitation of expression backed by law or some formal regulation. what we have is now is just not explicitly stated anywhere, no ink. but it's no secret what you will and won't be punished for saying. i live in a fairly liberal part of a fairly liberal state, but i still feel the pressure to keep my mouth shut. |
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"What most people are evading today is the realization that under the lip service they are paying to an anti-totalitarian crusade, they have accepted all the basic premises of a totalitarian philosophy--and the rest is only a matter of time and degree. They do not know how they came to accept it--and most of them DO NOT WANT to accept it--but they see no alternative and they are too frightened, too bitterly discouraged to seek it." Ayn Rand, 1961 |
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"It's the land of the free, and the home of the free." - Spaceghost |
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sorry what i said was unclear, i meant pointless to assign blame in terms of the individual citizen (for reasons too detailed to describe on this mb, so you will have to accept that this is my personal opinion), and that the problem is not limited to the united states. i realize that you and i may have discovered useful channels of less propagandistic information, and may (or may not) have the sophistication to recognize the deception and manipulation. but think of the countless people in the us who do not have such resources. i think it's important to encourage people to take a good hard look at how the information they receive is shaped, and by whom it is shaped, and for what agendas; the problem is that those who are influenced by these lies can eventually drown out the voices of reason. knowing where you stand is not enough. saying "if you are in the dark, get out of it" is meaningless when the blind are leading the blind. |
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Wo I think we are all over reacting just a touch. It's an employer's right to sack someone if they want. Personally if I had someone on my staff who was a loony lefty, I'd probably want to get rid of him. I'd think to myself he/she is likely to be not the kind of person I'd want for the company. The whole point about living in a free country I would say, is that people can decide whether they choose to work with you or not - they have that choice. As soon as you say to such and such that you can't fire someone, then they no longer have their own freedoms. Let the courts decide if anything is necessary. |
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most of the "upiright citizens" i know are just appauled by the idea that there is an agenda. the idea that the u.s. democracy is at all flawed and that our gov is not completely in service to the people sounds like looney conspiracy theory to so many people. we're told from youth all the good things about our system and never told that there is any room for improvement. we're taught that all of our shortfalls--slavery for example--are behind us, as if we've reached some glorious plateu (sp?). hence we have this attitude of needing to spread out great way--no cooincidence, the resemblance to the cristian missionary system--as if we don't have enough shit to straighten out here at home. |
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"slavery for example" please. Gimme a break. The blacks use to sell each other into slavery, it had been going on for hundreds of years before the white man took an interest. The blacks were essentially the slave traders. And there is still plenty of slavery (directly and indirectly) going on throughout the world and it ain't in any Modern Western Country. So don't get too high on your horse jupitah. Your agenda is anti corporation, anti American, anti-modern world. For all its supposed faults its pretty damm good. |
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promo, will you please stop making such huge statements about me without explaining yourself? i'm sure others would appreciate it if you'd do the same for them as well. you are dropping intelligent statements one moment and immature insults the next. you are interested in communication, no? so.. what exactly are you trying to say about slavery? i was talking about american education. the only statement i made about slavery is that it is used as an example of how horrible behavior condoned by the u.s. government is behiond us. the africans were slave traders by all means, it wasn't a white-man-bad situation. full cooperation. any decent american history education should teach at least that much. i made no comment about slavery being absent in this world. i'm not anti american. i choose not to fall into the state of satisfaction in the face of a need for continuing evolution. i can list so many reasons why i am grateful for living in america, but my gratitude doesn't blind me from obvious imbalances that the world would be better without. it doesn't blind me from exploitation that american corporations take part in. i'm sorry that you can't even admit that it might be a good thing to be a little more progressive with goals a little more rewarding than profit, like harmonious relations (are those looney lefty?). if anti modern world means anti progress and holding onto a single way of living to the end of our stay on earth, i guess i'm anti modern world. we are not going to last if we stay static. we are not separate from nature by any means and so we must keep evolving. my agenda is none of those things. will you please trace you steps to those conclusions about me? |
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read my location ^^^ Its gonna happen, now its just a question of 'when' |
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beliefs and spoken words are very powerful. certainly it is within the realm of possibility, but by no means it is inevitable, or even most probable. have you brushed off all responsibility? |
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well duh. this doesn't surprise me in the least. |
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explain to me why you think that because he wanted to air a purely informative, factual documentary on the rise of Hitler, Ed Gernon is suddenly some kind of loony lefty and what does america have to hide, if it refuses to show its citizens hitler's manipulative ascent into power? what is going on here? if people choose to be uninformed, then it's their own fucking funeral. but when information is held back in the vague name of "the collective good," that's when things get really scary |
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promo, how can you be free without freedom of political affiliation? your use of the term "loony lefty" says it all. you would impose your judgemental prejudices on people, even when there is no reason to doubt the commitment of an individual based on their political positions. i am not antiamerican; i simply think we need to separate what is good about america from the bad, instead of using the good to deny the bad. at risk of seeming overdramatic, let's acknowledge that the united states' government has, in the last 35 years, in one form or another, denied medical treatment to african americans to study the effects of advanced syphilis; covered up the deliberate exposure of civilians to radioactive materials; given large doses of lsd to citizens without their knowledge; undermined free elections in countries where socialist leaning candidates were poised to win or won; supported vicious right wing governments that slaughtered large numbers of their own citizens. this is not left wing propaganda; this is all well documented, historical fact. we ignore these actions and we silence dissent at our own peril. "there are no passengers on planet earch, we are all crew." -slightly paraphrased from marshall mcluhan. |
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loony lefty? wow man you're really showing off your intelligence there.. the point isn't about whether people should have the right to sack whoever they want, the point is that they are doing it because they come under pressure from the government to do so..if they did not they may have faced some kind of repurcussion. |
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i don't know that promo will reply to any of this. if he does, i would be surprised if chose to address the concerns rather than throw out another insult and continue his game. he has thus far in my conversations with him exemplified perfectly the of willfully ignorant. i wish i could say i don't know anyone who meets the description. |
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