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How a ruling in a case 30 years old can now be reversed is beyond me. Then again considering the Fourth Reich America has become, (I don't think there's a single democrat in all of washington anymore) there doesnt seem to be a time more fitting. I really can't believe how far to the right we've moved. Even so, this almost seems like an extreme. The fact that a small group of corporate-friendly, old, ultra-conservative white men will soon be able to tell women across the nation their own bodies are not theirs to control (not that this is anything new), simply because a few characters in an archaic fairy-tale-turned-religious-beaurocracy said so. To get some perspective on who many in washington are now alligning themselves with (including King George II, who phoned in his support at a pro-life rally) guess who said the following quote: "I want to end the idea that a woman is free to choose what to do with her own body." I'll give you a hint: HITLER. there you go, we are well on our way arent we. but let's forget about that,.. and the economic tailspin, and bush's corporate felon friends.. and let's focus on our favorite "threat" of yesteryear, mr. hussein. also, nevermind the fact that the fbi and the cia knew all about 9/11 before it happened, and that bin laden is still alive, and that the taliban has regrouped.. yeah! fuck all that! hussein KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE (umm.. in the mid-80's) .. kinda like a certain governor of texas that exercised the death penalty more times than anyone in the state/nation's history.. anyway.. back to the original rant, the united states may make abortion's legality a state-by-state basis kind of thing. i.e. it might become illegal in many bible-belt states, while it will remain legal in others.. I personally believe women should be able to have an abortion all the way through the end of the third trimester, while many are lobbying to get it limited to just the first. anyone who considers themselves to be "pro-life" (how's THAT for a euphemism?) |
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whatever dude, get off your soap-box. either you're a baby-killer or not. if you aren't, chances are you support roe v. wade being overturned. i know that i'm CERTAINLY glad my mommy decided she wanted me. it's easy to throw hitler around and spook people, it's hard to have a possition of power and make a REAL decision. next time YOU decide to decide for someone else, think about it... did YOU do the right thing? anyone who ever makes ANY kind of REAL decision runs the risk of looking like a monster. if you ever knew anyone who had an abortion, theyd tell you how horrible they are. in fact, i never met any girl who had one who DIDN'T regret it afterward. but thats not YOUR problem, is it? it doesn't concern you... right? it's all so subjective isn't it, when it's not YOUR decision to make. wait until you get a girl you love pregnant and you want to keep it... and SHE decides to get rid of it like its a piece of garbage. THEN you will know the absolute horror that is "pro-choice". unfortunately i have friends who have gone through just that exact thing. abortion never did anyone any bit of good. YOU look into their eyes and see their desperate pain, then YOU tell them that pro-choice is a good idea. YOU make THAT decision for THEM. good day |
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what bullshit. I have a friend who did feel the abortion procedure was pretty awful, but she does NOT regret it. "and SHE decides to get rid of it like its a piece of garbage." ah so ALL women view abortion like that, do they..? come on.. nobody ever said the men who have made the women pregnant should be left out of the picture - thats just bullshit. and it is shit of the girls who do that. but ultimately they have to carry it and give birth to it. so in the end the choice DOES lie with them. and a good day to you too. :) |
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nonoononno I'm sorry.. but you and your imaginary friend in your avatar have it all wrong. see, all the regret, and "deperate pain" these women "suffer" is from the stigma annoying christian reich people place upon this action and those who perform it. why don't you bring this indoctrinated moral lesson to all the children who grew up unwanted, or children who almost (or never did) grew up in a home that could not support another life. if I impregnate a woman I loved, it would be a conscious decision to do so (see, some of us live in the 21st century - NOT in the caves next to lazarus - and are aware of a thing called BIRTH CONTROL and the many options for its implementation) furthermore, should she decide she doesnt want the baby for whatever reason, I am (or should assume to be) powerless. It's not my uterus! Chances are, it'll happen another time! after all each shot of cum is home to about 500,000,000 potential children that will one day grow up in happy homes WHEN THE PA-RENTS ARE REA-DYYY. by the way, since we're on the subject of growing up in a secure home, and happy childhoods, why don't you tell us all some of your most fondest memories of your days as a developing fetus. What? oh you have none? Jesus, what about you, anything to share? no? oh.. hmm.. well, I guess that makes sense because at that point in your [pre-]life you have yet to LIVE at all. you have yet to EXPERIENCE ANYTHING. in fact, it is not until THREE (3) months AFTER a child is born that its neural network begins to develop. so, this all makes it very difficult to "kill" something that has yet to truly live in any sense. please, do me, your friend JC (you're embarrasing him) and the rest of the world a favor. don't preach. I don't need you to preach to me. don't do it. please. you simply do not know what you are talking about. this is because you've never even THOUGHT about what you are talking about. that is, at least you have yet to truly think this through without the restraining religion-filter that always seems |
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without the restraining religion-filter that always seems to have all the answers. in fact, I'm not even having this discussion with you. I'm having it with mommy and daddy, who forced this damaging philosophy onto you as an impressionable youth. and even they didnt decide to be the way they are themselves.. they came from the same people that, hundreds of years ago, were afraid to not subscribe to a certain faith because their neighbor was hauled off and burned at the stake. I can see from your christ-promotion that you are simple-minded and gullible. if you knew anything about your hero there, you'd know the last thing he would associate himself with is the current state of christianity and the [hypoc/]beaurocracy it has become. so kindly, in the name of christ, fuck off. think - FOR YOURSELF, for once - before you call someone a fucking BABY-KILLER. good day to you "how DARE you use Jesus' name to shield your filthy religion" -Shabazz the Disciple |
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I'd like to thank Jerry Falwell for stopping by the xltronic message board today. |
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haha, theo you must be maddox! |
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What about aborting 22 year olds like myself (hopefully)... actually whole masses of people... like they should monthly abort all the people that work and shop at walmart. |
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see how easily they throw their insults around? |
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teehee |
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i'm sorry for you that it is easier to hate than to love... when you post something in public, you should be up for criticism, otherwise keep it to yourself. so, if anyone decided to start controversy, it was you my friend. i am entitled just as you are to my views. since your view is that its all subjective, you should expect that. i guess it's not quite that subjective though, so us christians should just sit there silent and invisible, huh? don't be surprised then when people like george bush do the things they do... |
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i like my bum |
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It's very easy for men to preach about how abortion is wrong and it's murder and all. They'll never have to make such a hard decision. I respect human life just as much as the next person, but I also respect a person's right to make decisions regarding their own life, and having dated a girl who once had an abortion, I know how much making such a controversal and impactful decision can change a person. As I've never been in the possision to make such a decision myself, I dosn't feel right to try to tell somebody else how to. |
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Did you hear the one about the dyslexic agnostic? He stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog. |
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lay off the drugs you fucking hippy skum! |
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all you need is love |
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praise Jebus, the holy pink bunny Rabbit of chocolate eating and egg hunting! Kill all babies, that's what Jesus wanted. A t o p |
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that's right. I decided to stir shit up! POW the world will never be the same after the controversy caused by a post on an internet message board from an aphex twin website. they'll be talking about this tomorrow. it's gonna be massive. anyway.. here's a funny quote: "i am entitled just as you are to my views. " it's funny you should say that mr. ashcroft, because I had no idea you actually believed that to be true. if you feel you are entitled to having your personal opinions/views, why don't you take advantage of that freedom? why did u choose to surrender that right even after becoming a [maginally-]conscious adult?? have u actually thought through what you "believe" in? or are you "believing" out of fear of consequence.. NONEXISTANT consequence and what did I tell you!? STOP PREACHING. u came back here w/ this pretentious turn-the-other-cheek church-retreat type of rhetoric. "please, brother, you must learn to love" ...shut up. "when you post something in public, you should be up for criticism, otherwise keep it to yourself." you know, of course, this applies to you as well. unless jesus came down and personally gave you an exemption-from-criticsm card |
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I think something people often forget is that it's not what a woman does with her body- it's what she does with the body of another person inside her. Just as a point of information it was recently discovered that foetuses can feel pain by the final few weeks they can be aborted, so it's not as "humane" as some people would have you believe. Personally I believe woman should have them and give them up for adoption if they can't look after them/were raped/genuinely don't want them etc. Yes, it's an old fashioned view and an "uncool" one, but it's what I feel is right. |
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it has a lot to do with the woman's body.. it's nine intermittantly painful months and it's very exhausting. it is life-altering long before the baby is born. if you choose to keep a baby, or if your government says you have to, it is a responsibilty you must face, because it is literally a part of you. and then there's the financial part of it... it's not something someone should be put through if they, at the time, simply cannot handle it. when the time is right, they'll try again. what's wrong with that? it'll save the parents a whole lot of anguish and struggle. it will also save a life from being unwanted, or orphaned/abandoned. and by the way, it's not like the parents take out a contract hit on the fetus they're trying to get rid of.. I'm sure doctors dont go about aborting a pregnacy using the most painful methods possible, so what does the fact that they feel pain in the final weeks matter? first of all, no one waits that long, 10 times out of 10 it's pretty clear when a woman is pregnant, and they're not goign to wait 3 quarters of a year before deciding to abort. if I were to compromise the laws on abortion, I would only eliminate third-trimester abortions. at that point it's pretty much fully developed, and could be born prematurely at any time.. |
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My mother was unwanted and put up for adoption- she is glad she wasn't aborted. To abort seems to be a decision some women make out of conveniance... Re: Pain. The fact of the matter is, for years "pro-choice" groups have claimed that the foetus feels no pain and hence it is humane to kill them up to a stage (BTW have you ever seen an abbortion video? Really nice...) It has now been discovered this is not the case and they can feel it, comparitively early on in the development. |
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oh, I see, if she was aborted she would've been like "god, this SUCKS, I'm fucking aborted. why, why, why, why?" no. and I'm sure she's exstatic about being "unwanted" and yes, it is a decision made out of convenience, to save 2 lifetimes worth of inconvenience again, no doctor in an abortion clinic is sadistically trying to hurt the fetus. the fact that an abortion video is repulsive is completely irrelevant. I'm sure there are many kinds of healing surgeries that look worse tho. in fact, you could even make the point that a birth is pretty nasty too.. but again this is all off-topic and irrelevant. |
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No, the point I was making was that this view that a child that is put up for adoption as opposed to aborted is destined to have an unpleasent life and would rather of been aborted is nonsense. Until recently doctors didn't make much effort not to cause the foetus pain (using "painless" methods like cyanide injection etc. would be most humane, but aren't used due to the risk to the mother) as they thought the foetus couuldn't feel pain. |
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the fact that a half-living thing feels a bit of pain (a sensation it wouldn't be able to identify nor recognize) right before its existence ends is probably the worst reason to make this practice illegal.. I'm sorry, but that's just rediculous "[the] view that a child that is put up for adoption ... is destined to have an unpleasent life and would rather of been aborted is nonsense." nonsense?! get outta here... think about that again, and consider the alternative life the kid could live should the parents choose to wait until they are fully prepared for such a heavy responsibility. the chances of the child living a happy, normal life are far greater if his/her life can be delayed awhile. (I'm sure s/he won't mind, they have pretty good magazines in the waiting room) S/He will actually be raised by their true family, and not abandoned by it, what's wrong with that? who gives a shit if they have to wait until they're ready, willing and able and thus better prepared for this lofty cause. let me ask you this: what if a woman is raped and impregnated? what is the rightist's code of ethics on this situation? I'm guessing your indoctrinated (and dont try to convince me otherwise) dogma would insist that another cumbersome responsibility be leveled at the victim, (as if the emotional baggage of such an attack isnt enough) this responsibility being one that serves as a constant reminder of a violent, life-altering attack that will prrrobably end up ruining the rest of her life. I have a feeling christ wouldn't be backing this. I doubt jesus would be calling in support at an anti-abortion rally in athens, georgia. christ, as many believed, "died for us" (what a pal!) in order to make our lives better/easier. so I'm sure he's down for a little euthanasia every now and then, riight? think about it.. his father, (commonly known as the big guy upstairs) pulled a post-natal abortion on him a few years back. you might have heard about it, u kno, the cross , crown of thorns, INRI, all that. consider m |
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you might have heard about it, u kno, the cross , crown of thorns, INRI, all that. consider mankind the irresponsible parents and christ the fetus that was.. a little ahead of his time, aborted to avoid further agony and such. so, to make this easier on you who actually buy into the whole organized-religion thing, try to think of aborted fetuses as little embryonic/messianic christ-figures whose premature death will just make things easier for the irresponsible ones! right? however, instead of dying for our sins, this little baby jesus (odb?) is dying BECAUSE of our sins... of course I'm kidding, and this is coming off as a little rediculous, but I'm simply trying to match the illogical, rediculous reasoning behind these people's beliefs. and please don't ask me to respect your religious beliefs. they're dangerous, limiting, base, and quite simple embarrassing you know you're in trouble when you're basing life & death decisions on an archaic morality lesson/fairy tale that simply cannot be applied to the climate of the 21st century.. things are moving very quickly and very far these days and letting something like this hold us back is just foolish. but how do u respond to that Ceri JC(<---don't tell me..) and mr. WWJD himself, tibbar, what would your stance be on this if daddy was a rapist? |
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I support a woman's right to choose. |
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Instead of an abortion, will we be seeing scores of women throwing themselves down flights of stairs trying to induce miscarriages. Maybe we can pay to watch it? I would sell popcorn and fizzy pop and become a good old-fashioned entrepeneur. |
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MARLOWE I smile upon thee and bless thy undertaking. Let thine exploitation videos be fruitful and multiply. |
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wait until you get a girl you love pregnant and you want to keep it... and SHE decides to get rid of it like its a piece of garbage. THEN you will know the absolute horror that is "pro-choice". That's what scares me- the thought that a girl I got pregnant could choose to kill my unborn son. Marlowe: No, a far more enjoyable way of inducing a miscarriage in the early stages of pregnancy is to take 4/5 paracetamol and do a vodka binge. Theo: Your case isn't very well argued. I think it would encourage more people to become pro-life than to agree with you. I haven't brought religion into this debate once, yet you go off on a rather strange (not to mention unclear) tangent. As Tibbar so rightly pointed out, you throwing the word "Hitler" in is a cheap shot- others in the same league are accusing people of being racist or sexist. Perhaps you hope that such shock tactics will cause people to choose to drop the argument... I will say no more on the matter. |
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"I haven't brought religion into this debate once, yet you go off on a rather strange (not to mention unclear) tangent." this forum recently had an influx of new members, other than yourself, I was talking to one of them, namely tibbar. also, I was hoping some people in here would be able to recognize what a JOKE is... the rest of my argument is very well grounded if I may say so myself.. again,, that was a joke. dont be stupid. my mentioning of hitler pointed out the type of person that alligns themselves with this type of belief. after all, what is stated in that quote is essentially what a pro-fucked-up-unwanted-orphaned-lifer hopes to do with a woman's rights to her own body. you'll say no more on the matter, wow.. what a strong closer.. yeah. the lid id pretty much shut on this one.. it's funny that you choose to say "no more on the matter" when you haven't even begun to say ANYTHING of even remote relevence on the matter yet...talk about a "cheap shot".. how about a cheap COP-OUT u'r running away.. u ran out of the small amt. of ammo u had and now ur outta heeere.. .listen, since your in no danger of impregnating anyone anytime soon.. maybe it is best if u saved your energy and avoided further discussion of this topic |
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i dont think i can really make a choice for some woman on what to do when pregnant.. however nowadays birthcontrol is so readily available that if you arent responsible enouhg to have sex you shouldnt be having it.. yes accidents happen and all and there should be abortion to a certain degree beause people will always have it and those illegal abortions are even worse. however the use of abortion as birthcontrol is sick and partial birth abortion even sicker.. there needs to be limits |
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exactly.. its going to happen regardless of its illegality. think about drug use and other crimes. making it illegal makes it even more dangerous and only illegitimate means are available. desperate pregnant women will find ways of aborting that will put more than just the fetus in danger. pro-lifers don't think this thru.. they think that a perfectly moral existence on this planet is a reasonable aspiration. it's just not realistic. at all. and it stagnates everything. and by the way, ceri jc, before you duck out of this discussion, you never answered my question (I'm also asking the other resident pro-lifers. just so we're clear that this is a forum and not a 1-on-1 conversation): what if daddy was just some guy that held your mother against her will? what's your stance now ? (I sense a double-standard coming) |
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yea but do you agree with people who just use abortion as birthcontrol that have abortions like its nothing..? think of the health risks.. the mothers uteris gets damged in time and runs the risk of cancer and all, doctors do fuck up as well |
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I just wish that everyone could get on with each other. Think what a wonderful world that would make. I think Whitney Houston put it best when she said "learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all" |
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I dont agree with that, no. that's just irresponsible. After the 3rd or 4th time, I mean, get a fucking clue. I doubt too many people who go thru something like that are looking forward to part 2. |
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what's this guy's deal? it's like he has a constant overflow of serotonin all day.. anyway, to follow up on that last thought; using abortion as birth ctrl is an abuse of one's body and one's rights, but if it's legal, and the option is there, then they still CAN do that. I wouldnt' recommend/encourage it, but it can be done. |
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"No, the point I was making was that this view that a child that is put up for adoption as opposed to aborted is destined to have an unpleasent life and would rather of been aborted is nonsense." I agree. As is your idea that- "To abort seems to be a decision some women make out of conveniance..." thats such a marginal group. I also agree that using Hitler is a cheap shot. However, I think saying: "and SHE decides to get rid of it like its a piece of garbage." is just as cheap. Gross generalization. another point to consider is, this is one of the few important issues males do not have greater control over - I think this is what scares a lot of men too.. |
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I personally don't see why. another thing that needs to be taken into consideration (as is the case for cloning) is the population growth issue. while it's not an issue that will greatly affect us anytime soon, 20-30 yrs down the line it might.. china has been limiting births for years now.. try to focus on the many other good points I brought up.. not just the hitler thing (although it is valid and I think it scares the TWO pro-life people here when they check who they're [sortof] associating themselves with)..it's not a 'cheap shot' .. I'm on point, I dont need cheap shots |
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