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I think growing up poor, marginalized, hungry, angry and being told in a million ways you are a worthless piece of shit has an effect on people that is hard to measure or discuss. There are upper class blacks who shelter their kids from that shit as much as possible, send them to those Jack and Jill clubs where they socialize with others like them, and I don't have any stats but I'd imagine their kids are far less likely to get snuffed in drug or gang violence. Garbage in, garbage out - you fill a young person with horrible dehumanizing experiences, don't be surprised how they act it out later. |
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i completely disagree about its voluntary nature. read up on the black panthers and other historic black leaders of the 20th century. read miller, read cohen, etc., you won't feel the same way. if you have a large email account i can email you the writing i'm referring to in .PDF format. p.s. the CIA introduced crack to the ghetto, and the government and law enforcement have extensive ties to gangs and drug lords who they use to get information or manipulate for their own gangs. there's whole books about this stuff. |
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yea that can be true, but i know kids from school who grew up in some of the worst neighborhoods in ny, places i dont know much of because i was fortunate enough to not have grown up in these areas. however they have a drive to prove people wrong - that they can overcome these problems and they have avoided these obstacles. they are making an effort. They arent even black some of them, white people can be just as poor and come from the same neighborhoods. |
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oops i meant "for their own GAINS", sorry. basically i'm explaining how the government and police are corrupt instead of just making a vague claim. i could go into more specifics but, again, it's so much better documented in books and independent media. |
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what you're saying is true, but you should read miller and cohen for a good discussion of what these "good boys" have to go through in their daily lives when they choose not to give into the temptations of "street life." as for access to legitimate means and motivation, that's best discussed by merton, which i can also send to you (.PDF). |
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lach@vslink.net |
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ok.. i'll send you a couple today and 1 or 2 others when i have time |
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what do you think has to be done to fix these problems? i think we are going in the right step in this country and eventually in time a lot of these problems will get better. |
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i'm not totally sure what can be done to solve the problem. perhaps more black leaders in higher government ranks (and i don't mean bush's black cabinet members or the black republican congressman, j.c. watts, i mean people who really represent black america, not just the richest 1%). |
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It would be nice if we could have a thread where the author can post a question, and his views on this question, and then listen to what everyone has to say without giving his 2 cents after everysingle persons reply... its good to have such strong feelings on a subject though I think the reason black on black crime is talked about so much is for the reason that its another tool for racists to use to lesson or demoralize another race. Its another tool of this new form of "politically correct" racism. And its everywhere. Its sad how its so deeply inbedded in the media and in general, the world, that if your of a differnt race, it somehow makes you a different species of human, almost alien like. We are all human beings. There is just as much white on white crime as there is black on black crime, the media focuses on minorities. Race shouldnt be an issue when a crime is commited or when you apply for a job, or school, or when a crime is commited, people should see people as human. People make it out to be a race issue, which is so fucked up on so many levels. Especially in america, where every single persons (except for native americans) ancestors were immigrants from another country Whenever people (hispanic, asian, white, black...whoever it doesnt matter) are put into a situation of poverty people get desperate and try to survive by any means nessisary (dealing drugs, prostitution, crime) and violence becomes a part of life. Its very tragic and sad to see Its always bad to see a race of people get picked on and supressed, all life is precious, I really have a problems saying that the just because one person is of a certain race, his life is more valueable over someone elses. The mechanisms that the media, the justice system and sociaty put on minorities is awful and wrong (I wouldnt know what its like in outher countries, but here in the US it is a very corrupt system) but I think on a humanistic level of perception, no persons life should be more valueable then another persons. People usually never s |
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People usually never see it this way though, and always involve race and religion and political stature, and sociaty probubly always will until the end of time I think its wrong to jump to conclusions and assume people wouldnt know anything about this issue because they have internet access, or to assume everyone who posts here is white |
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Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper Chapter One "Silent Weapons For Quiet Wars" |
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oh right, i started this discussion cos i'm a racist. i forgot, sorry. do you realize that it's not whites who talk about black on black crime, but blacks? as for internet access, if you can afford a computer and the internet, not to mention cd's and concerts, you're not in the same situation as the impoverished minorities this topic is about. i mean, must you attack everything i write on this board? some things are pretty simple to deduct on your own.. "It would be nice if we could have a thread where the author can post a question, and his views on this question, and then listen to what everyone has to say without giving his 2 cents after everysingle persons reply" --- isn't that what discussion is all about? |
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Wow, where did you get the idea that I thought you were rasist titsworth? Because I didnt try to say that at all, the main point I am was trying to make was that people need to realize we are all human, and that race shouldnt be an issue, but sadly it is Ever watch cops or the nightly local news? I dont agree that its only blacks who emphasize black on black crime I am not attacking what you said, I am making discussion Of course most people here are not in the same situation as a minority struggling to make ends met, but I am suggesting the fact that maybe some people here are exposed to it more regularly then you may think, I agree that no one here would be in that kinda of situation situation Its a message board..... its not a chat room, I am all for discussion, but when your replying after everysingle persons comment, why not just start this up is a chat room eh? Maybe its just me |
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well i think one of the interesting things about this chat is that, no one knows if i am black or white.. you can assume by what i say but you cant really say for sure. i think the term racist really has gotten abused and people forget what it actually means. i think its good for tits to respomd after what people say, i for one was hoping to hear his response, so i can get a different opinion on the subject, and perhaps be corrected where i am wrong and learn some stuff i dot experience first hand. |
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it's been my experience that the people who bring up black on black crime are black.. most whites feel that black on black crime is invalid, it's just human on human crime.. which is an understandable perspective, it's just not one i share you don't have to worry about me replying to people's comments immediately after, i'm off to work.. bye |
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Perhaps there is a reason there is more black on black crime than white on white or whatever? Maybe there isn't. I think people need to re-evaluate there value systems and relize that just because people kill eachother doesn't mean they have a good reason. I don't think blacks are discriminated against anymore. It's becoming the other way around now. Example: My last job i worked with about as many blacks whites which seems reasonable. They decided to lay a bunch of people off. I got laid off, and they gave this guy from somolia my job and he never works and can't speak english. I'm not racist in any way. I just feel the tables are turning. To many people use there skin color as a weapon and it shouldn't be that way. |
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titsworth, you really are hung up on the whole race thing aren't you? I know its well intentioned but refering to people as "blacks" and "whites"... is that really how you think? |
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sad to say i couldn't agree more. if you're (we're) wrong then why bring up the topic in the first place |
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"slavery still exists, it's just changed forms..." I completely agree with that statement, people are forced to live lifestyles they cannot control and just barely live within. people try to make the best of their situation but if there isnt anything to make good of it will often result with crime and drugs and lead up to prison. many people never get the picture that people act like they do for a reason. people dont just kill people for no reason. something has to be done to be able to give more to people living in poverty because it wont get better unless the middle class\upper class do something about. god knows that the government sure as hell won't do anything, theyre too concerned with killing poor civilians outside of america than making lives better for american citizens let alone helping other citizens outside of the usa. |
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ups.... under paid slaves. i werk for brown. kill cracker. |
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thats bs, just because you live in the ghetto doesnt mean you cant be succussful and do something with your life. its easier to fall to the demons of poverty which is why people chose not to work hard. and the govt does plenty to help people out. what have you done to help the avg poor person except bitch about shit from your computer in your warm home |
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I dont think black on black is worse then yellow on white, white on white, black on brown, blue on red etc etc U GET MY POINT. But thats just my humble opinion. WE are all humans!! (yeah some are aliens, but u know), u heard me ;) |
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I don't know, perhaps people see it as oppressed people "killing their own" due to the conditions imposed on them by their oppressors (being forced into a life of crime by poor job opportunities etc.) Not my view, but that's the only reason I can think of. b0nk makes a valid point. True, some people have a headstart, but you can succeed whatever your background if you're prepared to work hard enough. |
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"what have you done to help the avg poor person except bitch about shit from your computer in your warm home " I dont know what your problem is, I state an opinion and you act is if you are the only one with the right answers. there is no definate answer to these types of questions. anyways I never said ANYTHING about people not being able to work there way up, I just said that if you have less its harder to do so than if your already a middle\upper class. i'll ask your question, what have you done to help the avg poor person? |
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Chris Rock is funnier than any white comedian. :) |
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Chris Rock is very, very funny. |
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don't talk shit. He's a fucking twat. He's one of these cunts who thinks that saying shit like "you know the white guy, he drive likes this.." is remotely funny. I don't know about black on black crime, but i do like watching a bit of black on black now and again. |
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No- he's not like your stereotypical racist black comedian (by that, I mean their jokes tend to be about race and wouldn't work if a white guy said it. A lot like "Comediennes" who just joke about periods and bitch about men). He makes fun of black and white stereotypes. If you watch his show you'll see him make fun of black culture just as much as white. |
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titsworth, you really are hung up on the whole race thing aren't you? yes because it's not only a topic i am especially interested in (like flea and anti-war news, for example), but i feel it's a really vital and important issue that a lot of people give little to no thought. claims like "discrimination against blacks has ended" are just really inaccurate, even if it's someone's own experience. I know its well intentioned but refering to people as "blacks" and "whites"... is that really how you think? a good question, and my answer is "not at all." i'm not hung up on people's race or other backgrounds, but when discussing issues of race it's pre-requisite to label people by race. |
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crime is linked to wealth, and the wealth distribution isn't going to change just like that. but this kind of question, if what you're getting at, i.e. trying to assess different people opinions dependant on their geographical position, is probably one of the most impossible and (almost) pointless discussions, due to the fact that from my point of view, if you compare culture wise race related crime in america and britain or anywhere else in the western world, is non-comparable. unintentionally, you have drawn people towards what makes america bad compared to the rest of the western world. this is an american issue, therefore i am not really qualified to give any particular point of view about it. |
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you're right; it's definitely an american issue and i didn't intend to get people to speak out on issues they're not educated in or experienced with. my fundamental reason for posting this thread last year was just to get the opinions of the white middle and upper class on black on black crime in lower class inner city neighborhoods (in other words, this is about a specific faction of african-americans, those in poverty). you might've noticed that i made a mistake bumping this thread; it's side-by-side with my thread about pitchforkmedia.com in my favorites and i clicked the wrong one. |
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I gave you the opinion of classless drifter. Not that it matters, but now you can add "classless drifter" to your checklist :) |
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i dont act as if i have al the right answers, because i dont. im just sick of people using their low status in life as an excuse to be a criminal or drug addict when there are plently of people who use it to work hard and succeed. i may have been harsh on you but i mean it annoys me when people put it that way. and to answer your question i work at a church and have in many ocasions helped out poor people in whatever way -- not saying i devote myself to helping poor people.. it was wrong of me to throw that question at you.. i was way to excited, i appologize |
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i think you made a good point, and i have to agree with it so far as is relevant to me |
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I didn't try to sound angry either, sorry if it came out bad, I really agree with what you said, I probably just misread one of your posts. |
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anyways, about chris rock, I dont think he's funny at all really. have you guys downloaded dave chappelle's comdy hour? it from quite a while ago it is some of the funniest stuff. the late bill hicks(nice choice for a member name too) has some really funny stuff too. |
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Then why, even in this place of anonimity and nicknames, are you trying to work out who is black and who isn't? I think categorising people like that perpetuates the problem. |
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what, did i start a "who's black, who's white?" poll in my sleep or something? with all due respect, i think you're overreacting. it's not like this is some music discussion and i'm telling people "oh no wonder you like jega, you're white." this is a discussion about race and any comments applying to the race of each person posting on the topic, you and i included, are relevant by context. |
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after so many years (centuries) of being told "you can't sit here, you can't farm here, you can't walk here, you can't eat here, you can't shit here, piss here, drink here, worship here, dance here or sleep here", it's only logical that blacks would form gangs that fight over territory, and that type of motivation for conflict (declaring and containing/defending personal belongings [your homeland is personal]) is one of the most self destructive in nature when applied to any group of people contained by a larger force to a limited and restricted state, as human nature is to want what it cannot have, even if it has much already but especially when it has nothing or very little. (anyone who says our (u.s.) government and workforce society don't still place american blacks in such a state is fucking blind or sickeningly indifferent.) the greatest damage done by such a conflict in such a state is done to the people in that state, as they are induced into continuing the fight (people multiply, belongings do not). they will eventually eliminate themselves, but do so because the environment they are in distracts the mind from focusing on complete, unadulterated unity. unity breeds strength and confidence and demands a recognition of the power of will. unity utilized by a minority in physical warfare, however, will do nothing (or at least relatively little) against a set system that is in control of a nation as politically and economically prosperous as ours. why? because this type of government cannot exist unless it is already three steps ahead of its people in terms of preparation for physical conflict. the only way (or at any rate the best way) to defeat the system is to use the system. maintaining constant unity and using it as fuel while using the system to fight the system is the answer. blacks in american ghettos who kill other blacks in american ghettos (or who kill any other blacks in america for that matter) are giving a much greater blow to the efforts of those blacks fighting (via the syste |
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oh well jesus christ ass fuck. i didn't know it would crop me. my point (that took me years to fucking make and probably wasn't worth the effort) is....blacks killing blacks are doing greater damage to the cause of blacks fighting for racial equality (and whites fighting for racial equality) than blacks killing whites are, because when a black kills a black it's a break of the unity blacks need to maintain to overcome inequality of the races....or so it has been argued. that's not actually the truth. blacks uniting and using the system to fight the system will not bring about equality of the races. BLACKS AND WHITES UNITING and using the system to fight the system is what will bring equality, and when a black kills a white it does just as much harm to the fight for racial equality as when a black kills a black. it is no more a blow to the cause either way, nor is it morally worse either way. but then you get into the belief (and ultimately truth) that war solves nothing. |
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this is a very old issue, if i recall correctly |
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the "black gang violence" issue has been resolved if i'm correct |
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i'm glad someone here is in agreement with me on this topic or even thought hard enough to get past the issue of calling a black person a "black person". and cygnus...... what? |
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Yeah Chris rock is extremely funny, especially when it comes to race because it's so true. If you get a chance download "Chris Rock - Niggers VS black people" he talks about how bad black ( niggers/niggaz/thugs/playas whatever u want to call "gangsters") people screw it up for the good ones. I don't have much to add to this topic other then that side note ^. |
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I am hispanic.... from hispania lol |
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