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 (nobody)...and 302 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2613472 Today 10 Topics 127501 |
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The only difference between, say, note A and note D is the number of wavs that pass in a constant unit of time. So when you hear a melody, the mental illusion you percieve as a "melody" is the organized waves units passing at speeds guided by rules of measurement. The waves in a note A are the exact same waves used in note C, merely the speed creates the appearance of a specific note. Anyway, I was thinking how this is similar to how, say, squarepusher creates intricate beats with percussion units... only on a time scale much more macroscopic. Everything is the same "pitch" maybe if you think about it, or better said pitch is an illusion of the speed of waves. I'm not positive about my facts or anything. |
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Society could massively benefit from a group of scholars/intellectuals that are given complete power to take action based on their knowledge over the corrupt political system. |
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so... drums can be tuned... WAVE ie sound length can be tuned/de-tuned... ie PITCH is RELATIVE... way the fuck back when Mozart & the gang were making music for symphonies & pianos & all that shit... the RELATIVE PITCH FOR ANYTHING was the A note... today it is the C note... weird, huh? |
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yeah...i've thought of that too... squarepusher has said that hes trying to switch around rhythm and melody...by making melodies with percussion and what not..he's been known to use drum machines as granular synthesizers.. actually...granular synthesis is based off of this concept your talking about.. rather than creating sound waves...it makes little pulses...which in rapid succession can create tones at least i think thats how it works...im not an expert on this...im sure there are more informed people on here |
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YES!!!! i too have thought of that.. and a huge YES goes out to that second post too! |
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Pitch = Frequency as is Rhythm... So 120BPM = 2 Hz....ponder on that one...:).. Basically Pitch isn't "an illusion based on speed of the wave" ... Pitch IS the speed of the waves... |
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Stockhausen's composition "Gruppen" was made using this kind of thinking. 50 years ago. |
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Here's some words on it: "In the summer of 1955 Stockhausen temporarily left his family for a period of seclusion in the Alps of Switzerland, staying in an attic of a house in the little village of Paspels. While working on the piece for the commission, which was to be a large scale orchestral work, Stockhausen discovered – or invented – a new way of structuring temporal events in music. In his earlier work in the electronic studio he had noticed certain aspects of tempi and pitch, which in themselves were great discoveries, and it was not by chance that it was Stockhausen who made the discoveries, since he always works in a combination of technical awareness and edge, methodically and stubbornly – and a flawless artistic intuition. The level to which these combinatory creative processes have risen to in Stockhausen is unique to him. Stockhausen noticed that a rhythmic pulse that is repeated in a sped up fashion eventually, at about 30 pulses per second, transforms into pure pitch. This made Stockhausen, by virtue of his extended musical thinking, turn the thought around, and think about pitch as a temporal process in a circumstance where it is not heard as such by our perception. He then went about constructing a 12-tone scale of durations. Now he could shape pitch and duration from one single principle! He composed a time spectrum with sub-divisions of temporal layers. However, he understood that it would be difficult – impossible! – for one conductor and one orchestra to realize his multi-temporal, multi-layered music, so Stockhausen bluntly came to the conclusion that he would use several different orchestral groups, each with their own conductor! Placed in different parts of the concert space he could then let the sound move back and forth between groups in different ways, merge and diverge – yes, even rotate! This was completely new! When he laid down the first structure of the piece he actually used the pattern of the mountains that he saw outside his attic window in the Swiss village. “Gruppen |
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“Gruppen” should be heard in a big auditorium to be experienced the way Stockhausen intended it. On a CD, however well recorded, you cannot get the spatial feeling that you get sitting in an auditorium with the three orchestral groups in a semi-circle around you. It is possible, if you have a surround-system at home, to experience some of the effect of this magnificent music, but the ultimate listening situation is an auditorium. Stockhausen says that “Gruppen” is a synthesis of orchestral, chamber and solo music. The musical impression that you get from hearing “Gruppen” at home is of great diversity, sudden events occurring from, or disappearing into, other events, in a bewildering, mind-expanding tour de force through a hall of mirrors, moving your mind along with great beauty and brilliant intellect in a tonal labyrinth, at times lifting you high above the complications, with a sudden free view to the horizon, until you shoot down like a meteorite into the multi-layered events that so well demonstrate the many levels on which we live, simultaneously. This is great art!" |
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What a spammer I am. |
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Thanks for that, Meho....v. interesting reading.... |
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Yep, that's why speeding stuff up makes it high pitched. The "Acid" algorithm that allows speed altering w/o pitch change "stretches" the wave to compensate for the pitch change created by the change in speed. |
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Always here for your convenience |
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you guys are fuckin smart at this music theory stuff, im so impressed! :) |
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No, it's just having the right URL's memorised in your "favourites" folder. |
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it still is the A note - orchestras are tuned from the lead violin playing the A above middle C |
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Hmmm... I think the first post is funny. Quote: "The only difference between, say, note A and note D is the number of wavs that pass in a constant unit of time. So when you hear a melody, the mental illusion you percieve as a "melody" is the organized waves units passing at speeds guided by rules of measurement. The waves in a note A are the exact same waves used in note C, merely the speed creates the appearance of a specific note. " See, none of that made sense. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Organized waves units passing at speeds guided by rules of measurement? What the fuck are "rules of measurement", and how do they "guide" these "organized" waves? Dude, pick up a book and read about this stuff. Don't make idiotic observations and post them to confuse others. You are not smart. |
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I think you are being a little harsh there, mate... Sure, the terms used aren't exactly obvious but it's fairly easy to work out what he means....and it's an interesting concept.... And he's started off a very interesting thread... so I don't wanna be mean but please chill, my friend...:)... |
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That's true. I was a little bit harsh. It's just that I detected this incredibly arrogant, know-it-all tone in his writing. If you're going to state something with that sort of confidence, you better be able to "back it up, ho"! |
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I think you missed his last sentence: "I'm not positive about my facts or anything" |
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He ain't positive about his momma either. Hmnmm... that didn't work. |
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Anyone hear or read that tale with that tribe in Australia (or was it Africa?) where once every ten years the strongest warrior would heft this massive hammer and pound one resounding note off of this ancient hollow tree? The"tradition" was thousands of years old and basicly they were creating this steady tone at the frequency of one thump/decade. Cool, eh? I don't remember if it was this analogy in some article or an element of some other story I read or heard. In fact I've probably embelished and distorded the specifics so much that if you did hear or read the same thing, you wouldn't recognize it...but you get the point. Cool, eh? |
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Now THAT'S analogue... |
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Have they been using Accurist or Rolex? |
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I recon they were using that hi-tech moon thingy... and my analogy/true-story/fable brings up another point: How can sound frequencies and extended tones be created by pulses or bursts of other different frequencies? Would a "tone" of rapid repeated "digital" notes be just that: a rapid stream of tones of a higher frequency? Or are we approaching the subject of over-tones? You can't create a true frequency of sound with pulses, as the pulses themselves are wave frequencies. The ear may accept the information as a tone, but the fact remains that we're too limited in our physical ability to perceive the true nature of the sound. This unfortunate nature (and our tendancy to believe what we see/hear/are-told) is probably the source of countless of the world's problems. ...yeah, they must've use that moon thingy. It's pretty regular in it's orbit thing. |
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yeah I know - i was just joking :) |
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Actually, they didn't use anything...it was just a story...I don't think a beat upon tree would stand for a thousand years and still give out a consistant tone. The whole world is flawed!!! |
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I'm always appreciative of logotherapy and I will admit the very big possibility that I am retarded and don't know what I'm talking about if you admit the very small possibility that you're retarded and don't know what the hell I'm talking about. "organized waves units passing at speeds guided by rules of measurement" was my organization of word units you attacked most. The only real flaw I see (still accepting the possibility that I'm retarded) is the incorrect pluralization of the word "waves", naturally a flaw you failed to recognize as important given the very small possibility that you are retarded. ((What the fuck are "rules of measurement", and how do they "guide" these "organized" waves?)) organize: to arrange or place according to a system (system: a group of things working together or connected to form a whole) wave: to move up and down or back and forth unit: a single part of a whole rule: a usual way of behaving measurement: size, amount or extent guide: to manage or control What do you think is incorrect about the term "rule of measurement"? waves are certainly organized according to that dictionary definition, but your quotation marks imply a differing opinion about them. Actually, now that I'm thinking of the sound waves as actual molecular vibrations, my (pseudo) theory makes more sense.... What CAN molecules waving up and down DO, other than increase in the number of times per duration that they wiggle? Maybe the brain evolved to interpret differing speeds of moleule wiggles as the phenomenon of pitch- sort of a massive data calculation the brain is able to interpret as something more colorful and imaginative for convenience. |
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this is a mad long post I don't think I'll ever read. sorry |
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That's ok, it was just a flatulous defence of my undefeated status as king of arrogance and superior intellect. Not to mention sexiness. |
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Bah, I don't have time to think of these things in terms of science, I just group them in GOOD and CRAP categories, with no questions asked about why one is good and one is crap. My mind has more interesting things to attend to, such as how I'm going to dupe my cat into attacking my foot, which is lying beneath a blanket. When she strikes... WHAKCO, I'll grab her, the cute little thing. |
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does anybody know if the pinch harmonics and feedback whistles etc that were being used by some of the experimental guitarists a lot have actually been scaled? as if have they ever managed to determine what notes if any those could be? |
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it's an excellent topic wMw..and very insightful we just have a few newbies talking out of incompatible orifices...bear with em.. |
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Harmonics are octaves. Atleast the ones you refer to. Well, wMw, you've done gone done it again. I don't feel like going into this anymore... you've got your opinion, I've got mine. Too bad mine happens to coincide with the scientific facts, and yours is way out there. Nevertheless (hehehe), I'm out... peace! |
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the pulses of vibrating molecules make your eardrums vibrate...which then move a series of tiny bones connected to nerves which are connected to the part of your brain which measures the frequency of the pulses...this is translated to what we call sound.. so when you think of it... the whole concept of sound is based on our senses... without our brains...'sound' is just vibrating air molecules... so.. if a tree falls in the forest, and theres no one there to hear it...it doesnt make a sound...it creates waves of vibrating air molecules ..it only becomes a sound if an animal with the 'equipment' needed to interpret these vibrations is within range to pick them up... |
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There's no such thing as Scientific Fact |
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