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Wizards Teeth on 2001-08-04 10:35 [#00019655] | |||||||||
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Does anyone know if animals think about things? Do all humans think in thier spoken language, if so do dogs think in barks ? |
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Loogie from UK on 2001-08-04 10:45 [#00019658] | |||||||||
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That's deep. My dog barks in his sleep but come to think of it so does my girlfriend : ) |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-04 10:53 [#00019661] | |||||||||
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Well. I think that animals think along the same "IDEAS" as we do. You know like. Im hungry, Ill go eat. Or Im thirsty ill go have a drink. Its all UNIVERSAL to a certain point right? Because our needs and wants are somewhat all there to each animal. Its a hard one to try and explain. My dog, sometimes I swear I can tell what he wants, or what he is trying to say when he is barking. I think that the dogs know that we don't get them, and they don't get us for the most part. I mean, when the dog is at the door scratching - he wants out. Or if he is at his food bowl and is staring at it empy he wants food. Just like when we tell them to SIT or STAY or something they get it, because of your actions and works and tone in the past. They understand, in their mind, what we in OUR mind what them to do, or how to behave. Its odd. |
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Wizards Teeth on 2001-08-04 11:02 [#00019665] | |||||||||
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So, do animals have the power to think of new ideas. As an example could a horse think invent communism or could a duck think of a new recipie for a cake ? |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-04 11:12 [#00019669] | |||||||||
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No. Because as we do it, {think of something, that we know of, based on knowledge, or experiance, first or second hand} think about certain things like Communism or A Cake Recipe, we are doing it because these things are a part of our reality. Our brain capacity has brought us this far in our world as a society. And we only use about 6% or something like that. Imagine is we used even 20% of our brain, let alone 90% or something. So you see, ducks would think about getting food, shelter, and other normal animalistic things such as those. And Horses have not evolved enough, you know what I mean. Its a hard topic. THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA - What if instead of monkeys or apes evolving, and eventually turning into humans and so on. What if it was chickens or turtles or something??? Then all OUR history would be gone obviously, everything in the world would be from a turtle or whatever animal, and history would be 100% changed or different. Like holywood?? It could be something like it, or Turtlewood?? Or nothing at all like it. you see there are many odd questions. |
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boxrocket on 2001-08-04 11:22 [#00019672] | |||||||||
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i think certain animals that are smarter than others (dogs, cats, pigs, horses) have the ability to think up ideas, yeah. i think they can plan on doing certain things ahead of time, like playing jokes on you. my uncle's dog is a very smart dog, and he doesn't like me much. he knows he's not allowed to leave the backyard, but everytime you open the gate he tries to squeeze his way through. i discovered that while he runs away from you as fast as he can if you try to catch him, he'll come straight up to the door and scratch on it if you just ignore him and go inside once he escapes the back yard. he knows that it makes me angry when he escapes through the gate and runs off, but if i pretend like i don't care about it, and i just go back inside, it's no fun for him anymore because he thinks he hasn't succeeded in pissing me off. so he comes right back to the house. i think the only reason he leaves the back yard to start with is not because he wants out, but rather because he wants to make me angry. he likes playing this game to piss me off. if he's capable of doing this, i think he is just as capable of thinking up other ideas that he never fully executes. |
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Wizards Teeth on 2001-08-04 11:34 [#00019674] | |||||||||
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I understand, are you trying to say that all ideas are based on ideas that have already happened. I suppose ideas and concepts have evolved with humans. Why for example did humand 2000 years ago not design a spaceship instead of bread (i do not know the exact invention date of bread). I know bread is a less complex invention but bread would have been just as revolutionary. I also like to contemplate why things are invented at the times they are invented. Why have we not yet invented a method of boiling water to make tea in one second instead of four minutes. Imagine a machine that allows water to be added and after switching one switch to intsantly transform the water into boiling water. Or why have we not invented a machine that makes a seed grow into a flower in on minute instead of three months. Could it not be possible to speed up biological processes to all the gestation period of a growing human to be halved. In essence doubling the "speed" of time. Does time have a "speed". I read about atomic clock experiments, apparantly time slows down as the speed of an object increases, if the speed of light is reached does time stop or does it reverse? Therefore light will constantly exist, therefore the universe will never end. I don't know really, it would help if I actually was "Steven Hawkins". Also tonight I was going to go out, I am no longer going out as I refuse to wear shoes to dance in. I class dancing as an exercise, you do not see sprinters wearing stilleto heels on the track do you. *******CONCEPTS******** There may be a secret reason why ideas happen at certain points. I suppose if monkeys had invented a spaceship thousand of years ago, they would not have been able to fly it as they would be unable to read the instructions or reach the steering wheel. I think the most important invention of all time is George Michael's designer beard hair set-up. |
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Wizards Teeth on 2001-08-04 11:45 [#00019675] | |||||||||
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Do animals have intelligence or do they execute thier actions without thought. I once seen a pigeon eat some sick. I told a tramp who I was standing next to (I am not a tramp, I was just standing next to him). He was upset. I once also conversed with a tramp about a lovely russian hat he once owned, I gave him a drink of my pop, His name was Albert. The tramp was called albert, the hat did not have a name. |
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Gl;itch from New Zealand on 2001-08-04 11:53 [#00019676] | |||||||||
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define animal intelligence, I happen to think dogs as a whole are stupid creatures. some people think cats are stupid because they wont learn tricks like dogs, I think its because they are smart enough to not want to. but its all subjective, I dont think humans are very intelligent either, we still work on instinct more than we care to acknowledge. |
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Wizards Teeth on 2001-08-04 12:40 [#00019677] | |||||||||
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Animal Intelligence - Ask a horse to build a house and it could not. As it is unable to pick up bricks As a horse to supervise the building of a house. It could if it went to university to study an architects degree, delivered to the horse by one of those special people who can talk to horses, example - Robert Redford in the horse whisperer. Then get Robert redford to teach some builders how to talk / listen to a horse. Hey Presto - You can now get a horse to supervise a building site. |
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Plan 9 from Outer Space on 2001-08-04 14:47 [#00019688] | |||||||||
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A horse with a university degree? You mean a zebra? |
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Peter File from the Paedoph Isles on 2001-08-04 14:54 [#00019689] | |||||||||
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I like that episode of Blue Peter where the elephant done a poo and the presenters fell over in the poo and they got poo in their hair. |
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Earface from just off the on 2001-08-04 18:34 [#00019713] | |||||||||
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Yeah, nice one Pete. Um, I think intelligence in an animal is very limited. Like children or the mentally ill (and in 'rational agents' too, in our first acquisition of knowldge) they appear to be constrained by their customary habitual experience of everything. (This opinion is strongly influenced by [Humean] Idealism - I don't pretend that it is all my own thought) In away that any so-called 'idea' that they have is a pale reflection of an initial impression (or experience) which they would have received. You dog, for e.g., only eats it's food because it has experience of it in the past, and having initially investigated the impressions recieved by it's senses it would consequently have a pale but corresponding idea of it thereafter. I think that humans differ because they are aware of themselves. Acceptably, a dog or a horse my have some kind of sense of 'self', but I don't believe that they have the ability to think 'I have a sense of self', or 'I think', so any personal identity within an animal is merely natural, accidental, or innate. Human's however have an awareness of the mere fact that they think - of apperception - COGITO ERGO SUM - and can at least become aware that the relationship between impressions (such as the so-called effect of gravity on objects) is either existent in 'nature' or created within the mind itself. This goes as far as being aware that certain relationships are necessary in our ordering of our impressions/experiences in order to understand and describe what we 'know' - namely the 'a priori' synthetic judgement made possible by the spatio-temporal framework or, in other words, space and time (see Kant's Critique of Pure Reason - fucking excellent stuff). This view, however, can only be mere conjecture because I, by my own argument, have no 'idea' of the mindset of an animal because I could not possibly have had an impression of it in which to deduce. |
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------ from ------ on 2001-08-04 18:54 [#00019714] | |||||||||
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We are animals. As we evolve, we find better ways to do things, and other ways to communicate. But human intelligence is unimportant for frogs. And the frogs mind is unimportant for Us. We dont find interest in helping the ants out in all kinds of situations 24-7. I think that each species do what they find important, or what they find interesting. Horses have no interest in speaking the human language because they are not human enough to see whats so important with it. |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-04 22:06 [#00019756] | |||||||||
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Wizards Teeth: now you are getting into Quantum {spelling?} Physics and stuff. Example of speed of light: If I were to be spinning around you at the speed of light, and you were just standing there you would age more than I would. Theoreticly. As well, a bit off topic but interesting the time theory. Supposedly our time that we live in now is HERE, we all share it and all know it. For instance, if I was to fly to England right now and get there, your time would be relative to my time here right? Right. Now, If I was in space, and I was flying around, time is not relative there, only relative to a pre-set structure of numbers. Now... Supposedly our universe is but of one small layer to a cosmic blanket of sorts, where like I said, we are but one thin layer. Almost to the point of being 2d. Now, you may think that since the universe is 3d up down, side to side, and inbetween right? Well In space, where is that inbetween? This ties in with the theory. since it is only a thin layer, we can theoritcly BREAK through that layer somehow and enter a parallel universe, where possibly Earth exists and humans live there and so on. But their history and everything is different. Or Earth doesn't exist at all. This is also the theory of time travel. |
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m....M..Mw )wW(m M m)Ww( wM..M....m on 2001-08-04 22:25 [#00019767] | |||||||||
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Hawking and newton argued that if a train moves on the earth, you can be correct to say that the train is moving east relative to the earth, or that the earth is moving west relative to the train. So they stated that there is no absolute space. My argument is that the very center of the big bang can be used as the center of a huge 3 dimensional x,y,z axis. The center of the big bang should be constant because all matter moved outward from that central point. So you could be more accurate in your knowledge of how the train and earth are moving relative to the center of the big bang instead. I could be wrong. In one experiment, a rat navigated a maze on the first try, making every wrong move possible. But gradually, after a few trials, it knew exactly where to go. If a human were to do this, they have the tool of speach at their disposal. They can think in their head "left, left, right, left, around the corner, left, left" Very specific instructions commited to memory. Speach that is this useful and complicated is unique among humans. I will now squirt female mantis pheromone all over my face and sit in the woods for awhile to see what happens. Not all insects use chemical sexual attractants. Butterflies, for example rely on visual attractants. Crickets use sound. |
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=|R3FL3X|= from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada on 2001-08-04 22:32 [#00019768] | |||||||||
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Yes - Good to read that there are some knowledgable people on this board. {I make spelling/grammatical errors a lot though}. Anyway... have you read the experiments on the BRAIN? PLEASE READ AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK!!! - Okay, ive seen these videos in some special classes I took on the brain pathways, axons, relaystations and other interesting things. Basicly they CUT the relay station in a human brain {connects the two sides togher, right and left, left controlling the right side of the body, and right controlling the left side, among other things} and they gave a block puzzle to this subject, at first he was only allowed to use one hand to do it, his right hand {so his left brain portion} and he could do it very well and fast {its a childrens block puzzle}. Next they let him only use his left hand {right brain} and he couldn't do it well, and interestingly enough his right hand {that could do it before} always tried to correct his left hands mistakes!!!! This is quite interesting. Then whent hey let him do it with both hands, one hand was doing it and the other was constantly correcting mistakes and checking things over. You see, his two brain portions were working as 1, but seperatly due to the relay station not being there. HIS TWO BRAINS COULDN'T TELL EACHOTHER WhAT THEY WERE DOING! |
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Lord Lufford of Morley on 2001-08-04 22:35 [#00019770] | |||||||||
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Peter File, were you drunk when you wrote that message? |
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The Grey Gentleman from Eugene, Oregon on 2001-08-04 22:45 [#00019774] | |||||||||
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Humans are animals. All animals shit, eat, drink, and plot. My folks have a particularly evil little dog that is always plotting, usually involving getting food somehow, without my parents finding out. Their two dogs even frequently team up and one will distract my mom while the other one goes for the goods. The little bastards do this all the time. They're quite intelligent. I doubted it at first, but they've done it so many times, they're definitely trying to actually deceive my parents. It's kind of remarkable to watch. They pay no mind to me, I'm just "that new dumb slab of meat that comes around to visit on occasion". Us stupid, egotistical humans don't think that this is possible, though, and I think animals like that. They can get away with a lot more. |
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The Grey Gentleman from Eugene, Oregon on 2001-08-04 22:45 [#00019775] | |||||||||
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Humans are animals. All animals shit, eat, drink, and plot. My folks have a particularly evil little dog that is always plotting, usually involving getting food somehow, without my parents finding out. Their two dogs even frequently team up and one will distract my mom while the other one goes for the goods. The little bastards do this all the time. They're quite intelligent. I doubted it at first, but they've done it so many times, they're definitely trying to actually deceive my parents. It's kind of remarkable to watch. They pay no mind to me, I'm just "that new dumb slab of meat that comes around to visit on occasion". Us stupid, egotistical humans don't think that this is possible, though, and I think animals like that. They can get away with a lot more. |
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Earface on 2001-08-07 01:05 [#00020187] | |||||||||
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Humans are not animals. An animal is purely determined by the fact that they shit, eat, piss (a poor argument anyway) in a way that is quite disjointed from the behaviour of a human. Humans have the ability to create and recreate the essential natures of themselves in which they determine. Where a human would still shit, eat, piss (Grey - this really is dire logic) they have the CHOICE, the FREEDOM, to choose where, when, and how to do it; with the added consideration of manners and etiquette. We also consider the LIVES of other humans, and animals to that matter, in a self-conscious, rational way. It would be worth noting that such attitudes (that humans are simply animals) led to the attrocities justified and perpetrated by the Nazi's in the Second World War; and is an attitude that should no longer lend itself to justification - a lesson that should NEVER escape our understanding. |
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The Grey Gentleman from Eugene, Oregon on 2001-08-07 02:36 [#00020196] | |||||||||
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SIEG HEIL, Cap'N bizkit! |
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Xanatos from NYC on 2001-08-07 03:08 [#00020198] | |||||||||
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Earface: It would be hard for me to disagree with you more. "An animal is pure determined by the fact that they shit, eat, piss...with the aded consideration of manners and etiquette" Yes they do to it in a way that is "disjointed from humans" but that does not seperate us. The human ability to rationalize is solely based on our advanced and evolved brain's which can determine the best methods for survival, which is still, like an animal, or #1 goal. Any animal with the brain capicity to realize that "Building a toilet and shitting in it would keep filth and disease away from me, hence helping me to survive and procreate" would. Any animal with the intelligence to understand "If I build weapons I will help defend myself better, or if I build a farm I will help feed myself better, or if I keep myself clean and wash with water instead of licking myself I will be able to attract more females/males" would. It is all a matter of survival of the individual and the species. Animals are conscious of themselves and of their families, who they take care of to survive. Just as we do. Agreed: we vary immensely in intellectual capacity. But does that REALLY seperate us? WE STILL ACT ON INSTINCT AND SURVIVAL. As for your thing about Nazi atrocities, that is TOTALLY absurd. It is the feelings that animals are not real conscious creatures, that cause us to torture them the way we do everyday, as bad or worse as Jews in death camps. As for the Holocaust, or slavery, or the White Man's Burder, it was the feeling that the OPPOSING race, was not human, and not worthy of life or to take care of itself. We must take the attitude that ALL life is worthwhile, not that humans are. Trust me, Hitler didn't think "Were animals and so are they, let's burn them!" They (the nazis) thought: these people (or animals) are obstacles, or impurities toward the advancement of the Aryan race. We must take the attitude that ALL life is worthwhile, not that humans are. And this isn't just my vegan propoganda, I'm not even a vegetarian (although I do support free range food/laws), but animals are just like us, we've just suprased them and forgotten it. |
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Gl;itch from New Zealand on 2001-08-07 09:29 [#00020235] | |||||||||
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but Adolf Hitler was a Jew, so what does that say. It was the Jewish religion and money greed that had the Germans go against them. Humans are animals, and no mater how far we think weve grown from that we still act on basic impulses and instinct. |
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leftrightronic on 2001-08-07 10:32 [#00020245] | |||||||||
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what the fuck do you think we are? animals.. extremely evolved ones. |
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Gl;itch from New Zealand on 2001-08-07 10:44 [#00020247] | |||||||||
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who was that rage directed at Leftrightronic ? and what did you mean ? |
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wizards teeth on 2001-08-07 11:46 [#00020251] | |||||||||
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Soemone mentioned that we use only 6% of our brain capacity. Can the other 94% be unlocked ? Can drugs not deform certain areas of the brain and cause the locked sections to become unlocked. I read that mdma breaks down membrains in the brain thus altering the structure of the brain, thus possibly releasing "New Powers". I wonder what would happen if we gave a horse some disco biscuits ? A party full of horses (one of my dreams) |
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Gl;itch from New Zealand on 2001-08-07 12:07 [#00020252] | |||||||||
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i watched a program on mdma, some raver guy who had parkinsons disease, or something similar, he had heaps of trouble doing normal things, but if he took mdma he could better control his movements and do things doctors couldnt understand. its worth a thought anyway. |
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wizards teeth on 2001-08-07 13:04 [#00020258] | |||||||||
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I seen that also, it was very interesting. Is it possible to hypnotise people with music ? If people can be hypnotised with voice, why not sound ? |
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Peter File from the Paedoph Isles on 2001-08-07 14:31 [#00020268] | |||||||||
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E=MDMA |
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wizards teeth on 2001-08-07 14:48 [#00020269] | |||||||||
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Peter File, Correct |
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Peter File from the Paedoph Isles on 2001-08-07 15:04 [#00020270] | |||||||||
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But seriously, folks, there's an interesting experiment which involves feeding spiders drug-laced flies, and observing how this affects the webs they make. The spider on LSD actually made a web whose surface area, and hence fly-catching potential, wasactually greater than normal. Its shape was closer to the ideal symmetrical shape, and its spirals were more consistently spaced. |
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Peter File from the Paedoph Isles on 2001-08-07 15:11 [#00020271] | |||||||||
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Oh, and the web produced by the spider on caffeine was the most fukd of the lot (the other drugs used were mescaline and marijuana) |
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Gl;itch from New Zealand on 2001-08-07 16:59 [#00020289] | |||||||||
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it fucked up the web on caffine or made a really good web ? enigmatic mr File |
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Peter File from the Paedoph Isles on 2001-08-07 18:35 [#00020301] | |||||||||
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It fucked it up bad, daddy! |
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Julian Casablancas on 2001-10-11 13:37 [#00040221] | |||||||||
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This is why LSD is good. |
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