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 Now online (2)belb -crazone ...and 103 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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by Peter Watts |
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I’m only ten minutes in, and made the mistake of starting to watch this while feeling tired. Shame as it’s a fascinating topic, and a talk I can’t wait to get back to. Because I have the attention span of a (be careful here RD) salad leaf, I wanted to use this post as a reminder for myself: consciousness started off simply as a way for life not to die (prematurely). At least to prolong that fateful moment for as long as possible. Ok, suicide, but that’s possibly a side effect, an anomaly. I dunno, maybe the fruit fly just wants to have fun, but I see it (for now) as: Consciousness = “oh, I’m alive, and oh, I don’t want to ‘not be alive’”. You could argue that physical pain is here for that, of course. Ah fuck it I’m gonna watch some more before I make a total fool of myself. Only ten minutes in... |
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Twenty minutes in, and I’m wondering why consciousness is associated with time spent “thinking”, as opposed to a quick reaction. As if consciousness meant time spent on a matter. I guess this when intuition comes in? Maybe “thinking” can hinder consciousness? Is thinking true consciousness? Or is consciousness also that split decision you make, the one that ends up being correct? Is this where time comes in and gives us false impressions? The concept of time is a hindrance here, because I’m wondering wether time spent thinking can steer you away from true consciousness. That time spent thinking is where Jung and Freud come in. Yeah I’m shot to pieces. Don’t mock me in the morning! |
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that was fascinating and frightening in equal measure. shades of the denouement of childhood's end, in the lack of an identity even to opt out of the hive once yr jacked in. children dashing themselves on rocks as a whole new macroorganism explored and grew. i mean damn, i like being me (mostly) |
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That was really interesting. It could happen to silicon or human brains first. If humans hive mind first, the orgasm centers of all the brains might spawn off into a sickly narcissus routine. Or it could oppositely be a giant suicidal system instead, since it's a big unnatural ultra super computer with possibly no natural purpose. It could just continue survival of the fittest and start subjugating/manipulating/enslaving/eating the poor who can't afford to be a part of it. It'll be all the corporatocracy overlord psychopaths in there first. It could focus on churning out endless possibly pointless art only it fully understands, or start figuring out how to escape the planet to find out what's beyond it. I don't see how I'll even be allowed in it, the system is already shedding undesirables like me, not allowing me to buy or sell, which means no trading since I have no wealth to trade with and it's even enforced with computer algorithms beyond that, no votes to vote with my dollars. So it seems this thing will be my enemy, and I'll be powerless against it, even more so than I am against its current manifestation as an oligarchy/technocracy. Silicon and DNA style coding might sort of fuse, with more adaptable forms not confined to human models, forming all sorts of varied consciousnesses, even then it might not be perfectly easy for one consciousness to fuse with another similar to one using 'linux' or another using 'windows' as a lame analogy, not sure if things can evolve faster than evolution algorithms already did in earth's history. And survival of the fittest seems an inescapable root algorithm so a massive super brain will probably only manifest if it is fit, but all sorts of crazy things can make it fit like merely individual human desire to enter it or economic affordability of it. It sort of seems like the final over complexity burp of an earth ecosystem going in an unsustainable unnatural off kilter toppling direction. Could simply result in end of most life. |
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If "leftists" and "alt rightists" (ctrl+alt+del?) are real memeplexes and not just a bunch of astroturfed shit, this hive mind might just be a giant piece of shit. What are the chances that it'll be an interesting/creative thing like aphex twin, it'll be a people of walmart symphony of failure. It'll be like modern videogames, really good graphics with no soul or substance, one giant dictator hivemind full of hubris, turning everyone not part of it into skid row cockroaches. Money is almost being used like raid insecticide currently. |
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good read thanks w |
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There's a lot of interesting side tangents to go off on but you really must watch to the end because he has a strong central point that ties it all together. See, Belb gets it. Belb, read Blindsight. wMw have you ever tried vipassana meditation? |
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have you tried confessing |
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they probably will make me confess for john donahoe and jeff bezo's sins. I question the judgment of the judger if those 2 aren't judged. I never tried vipassana meditation, but it's probably illegal since everything is illegal (for poor people). |
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i was a bit deluded the second time i did the 10 days retirement cos at the end of it i offered the same amount ive had to offer the first time i been there, a 50, and the serving lady wanted more, more or less politely. i could have given more but i still didnt know how to ration cash at the time. i remember the people i met there up to present day. |
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'if you want me to talk, i can talk' 'nonononononononono' |
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just finished this in hardcopy; what an awesome ride. scarily, i'd probably be plugged into Heaven not joining the Realists. and fuck out to the future if we have scramblers to deal with just outside our peripheral vision... have immediately ordered echopraxia and firefall, i gotta see how this pans out |
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Great! I think you over-ordered though because Firefall refers to the two books Blindsight and Echopraxia. I hope he writes a third one set in that world. I had to read Blindsight several times before I felt like I understood most of it, then I read Echopraxia and that confidence vanished. After Echopraxia (not before!) you should read the AMA Watts did on Reddit. It helps clarify things. Also check out and (free PDFs on his site), and then Freeze Frame Revolution, his latest published one. They're not set in the same universe as Firefall. I'm not sure I fully buy his Firefall argument that human-type self awareness and phenomenal consciousness is an evolutionary dead end and stumbling block versus the nimble unconscious adaptations of Rorschach and the scramblers. The way the scramblers worked around saccades to remain "invisible" would certainly work better autonomically than if a big slow lumbering consciousness tried to second guess every decision, but the big slow conscious mind seems necessary to plan the tactic in the first place if it's not an evolved capacity. Sort of like how we plan and program algorithms and then let them flow efficiently. What if Rorschach is an artifact, an artificial nanotech life form. Just my 2 cents. |
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yeah i still have some faith in human decision-making, though the probabilistic non-interventionism of the captain makes you wonder how much agency we really had. i see the scramblers more as rorschach's neurons / blood cells, and with their ATP-efficient "burst mode" punctuated by long silences they must be old. who knows what kind of evolutionary pressures created it? and the central question, what is consciousness? it's fun to speculate. and thanks for letting me know i was over-ordering, caught the order before it shipped. looking forward to echopraxia! |
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didn't Watts say the human being is an aperture through which the universe is observing itself? I had the mental image of a man sticking his head up his own arse lol |
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to quote bill hicks: today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. here's tom with the weather head up poopchute or not, you decide |
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finished echopraxia a couple of nights back. awesomeness. took a break to mull it over and just got into the reddit thread... aside from interesting light being shed on his work, the method he suggests for dealing with killer cops using sound game theory just made him my new hero |
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ahaha yes "operant conditioning" I remember being impressed that he had the orbs to say that publicly under his own name. I didn't realize he'd done a second AMA! Have to read that. Also need to re-read Echopraxia. Oh lawd I just saw that he's working on the third Firefall volume, amazing amazing. |
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