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 (nobody)...and 176 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Do you think music as such does express or state truths? Do you think - for instance - the music of J.S. Bach's Cello Suite in G Minor is indeed a truth-claim about the state of the world, just as a gangster-rap instrumental is? [The former truth-claim might roughly be put into verbal language as "The world is basically harmoniously strucutred" while the latter truth-claim might be put into words as "Life is war and you either kill or get killed" or something along those lines]. I actually DO think music is in the business of making truth-claims. And I think it's an unfortunate development in the Western world that music is largely seen as entertainment or "just art" or as merely expressing emotions etc. |
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Major, not Minor ... |
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What's the difference between a 'truth-claim' and evoking imagery or an emotional response? |
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What’s important about truth-claims is that they aspire to be objectively valid. And, I guess, I would say that an emotional response normally is a type of truth-claim that aspires to be objectively valid. .. When, let’s say, you walk down the street and see people fighting and respond with an anxious feeling .. then this emotional response feels you something about the objectively dangerous situation (just like the truth-claims of empirical statistics do) …. That's part of the reason why I said I take issue with treating music as merely expressing emotions … since that downplays the "truth-claim-aspect" of emotions ... which is similar to the demand for objectivity in the (currently) more respected sciences. |
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It’s subjective to the listener, ultimately. But yeah, Nietzsche for example fell out of love with Wagner and his music because he thought it as the sound of grandeur and wars. Francis Ford Coppola and many others went on to agree with the latter part. Oddly enough I’m about to start a comic book/graphic novel and was wondering if drawings could lie. I came to a quick, maybe too quick, concluion that drawings can lie, and often lie. I think with music it’s the same. |
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Minor over Major any day for me! Major lies much more. |
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For something to be objectively valid doesn't it have to have a static (and thus truthful) language that we can use to communicate with each other? Does music have that or can chord progressions, instrument choices, tempo etc and their meanings always be interpreted differently based on the person listening, the context of the listening experience etc? If it does have this language does that benefit or diminish music? is it a language that must be learned and if so does that mean there is a 'right' way to convey an idea in music? |
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Photos can lie so drawings definitely can. |
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I think music can express propositions, yes, even if they're a bit vague. Now in your examples, which one you will find true depends on your lived experience and degree of privilege, if you mean by truth a proposition that corresponds to a perceived state of affairs. |
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It depends on how one defines objectivity, I guess. 1. If one means by the objectivity of truth-claims that their correctness can be checked inter-subjectively using reliable and precise methods, then music doesn’t make objective truth-claims. I’m thinking of truth-claims such as „The Tabasco is in the fridge, behind the cheese“ or „It’s 40 °C in Karthoum today“. There’s no way that music can express such facts about the world. Music doesn’t have the necessary grammar for it. [You could of course construct a musical „vocabulary“ .. you could define that the A minor chord means „Fuck“ and the E minor chord means „you“ .. and then the chord-progression a / e would mean „Fuck you“, but that’s of course not how music is composed, and therefore has almost nothing to do with music in the normal sense]. 2.If one means by the objectivity of truth-claims that those truth-claims refer to a reality that exists independently of human opinions, then I think music does make truth-claims. But the truth-claims are usually not of the sort mentioned above - precise statements about sattes of affairs. Rather the truth-claims which music expresses are more general, ethical truth-claims such as „Life is harmonious“ or „Life is a struggle“ or „Let’s fuck, cause we’re horny animals“ or something like that. |
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