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 (nobody)...and 149 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Members 8025Messages 2613412 Today 4 Topics 127499 |
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In the broadest sense - why is there something rather than nothing, being rather than nonbeing? Primarily directed at welt, but interested in other replies too. |
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i suppose there can be no credible answer to this question, thats what first springs to mind, id have to think about it |
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God made the world in 6 days (quite a popular theory) |
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you can be without being |
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what do they mean by six days though, who was keeping watch, when their is no clocks or days yet why did it take him so long for an omnipresent being, surely if he is a supreme being it would have existed crystalline and pure in his mind instantaneously, why 6 days? Is god a procrastinator? |
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I guess they mean that God can do things instantly but he spent 6 whole days making the world to be as perfect as possible |
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the way i think about a supreme being is that he has total control of time, matter, intellectual capacity is infinite so he could make it perfect the instant of conception |
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he is the perfect, supreme being, all powerful all mighty, 6 days is practically an eternity for god, does that suggest he has limitations and he isn't omnipotent? |
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Why did the Big Bang happen, did it happen, what was there before TBB, is there always nothing before something? Chemical reactions, growth, decay, patterns... A design, MORALS MORALS MORALS Nothing, in it's concept, barely exists. Alien covenant will tell you everything, fleetmouse. Why is fleetmouse our resident pop philosopher? Why is everything so balanced? Why does the water fit the puddle? Because of AMPI MAX. I'm just dumb. There's this idea the sun is massive and far, far away. I just see a small thing in the sky that doesn't seem too distant, because I can see it in the sky. It must be really warm in space. Whatever. |
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just think when you type something on your keyboard that is gravitation-ally imprinted on the fabric of space time and encoded for eternity, but we will never be able to decode it cos its planck length or something, but it might be massive at the end of the universe cos of the expansion, massive waves that some alien is picking up seemingly unintelligible messages from your keyboard |
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someone will bring up the multiverse. God always creeps up first though. I think I'm a female thetan trapped in the male body of a human. Luckily people know how to help, and they're very kind. |
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Knew it! |
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that would be the ultimate irony wouldnt it, tom cruise is actually god |
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i dont believe in the multiverse its a stupid concept, i believe our universe is more like a moebius strip with more moebius strips coming off it, in an infinite foamy froth of universes wrapped up inside a moebius strip, like links in a chainmail or something |
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By the way I find fleetmouse to be a clever person. I like to rib him as he does me...errr, never mind, he just gets annoying when he uses academy speak. It's not always necessary to use tons of words to say something deep or complicated, even though he expressed clearly in the other thread that simple words are too simple, because they're all at first massive concepts. Of course God came up. The summing up. Btw this is epicmegatracks posting from Easter island. |
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I bet there's a hyperflake somewhere that doesn't agree. |
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what irritates me about that theory is by definition there are an infinite number of variations of me having a better time of it. then again there are an infinite number who are having a less good time, although thats hard to believe |
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It's depressing, as is the concept of reincarnation. I think it was professor Sheldon Cooper that said there could be a hyperflake made of toast farting Mozart symphonies out of a rectum that looks very much like one of those small inflatable boats. |
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remember the tv show sliders? |
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yes with the bearded welsh guy and they would always flush themselves round a ubend into a new reality |
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im probably the same in every reality except for one minor detail, like in all the other universes i have slightly less nosehair, it really could be that prosaic |
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the first two seasons were amazing every time they found a new world that had similarities with the real world |
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yeah, i still think they should have started every episode coming out of the warp and saying "oh fuck not again, this is beyond a joke now" |
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Or you reincarnate as yourself all the time. |
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yes like bill murray |
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To me at least 3 different basic ways of replying seem open. The answers are very rough sketches. [1] - Assuming the question is well-formed You’d first have to get an idea what a possible answer could even look like. It’s obvious what the answer can NOT look like. It can’t be a causal explanation of the form „X because of Y“ (The watch exists because of the watchmaker; honey exists because bees produce them, …), because that pushes the question further ad infinitum. So if there can’t be a Cause why there is something rather than nothing, what is there to find out? It seems to me that 2 explanatory options emerge. (1) Something just sprang up randomly and chaotically from nothingness. (2) Something exists necessarily. Answer 1 seems a bit dubious because of the immense order in nature. Even if you don’t want to posit an intelligent creator, it seems wild to imagine that an orderly universe sprang into existence from mere chance. Think of classical Darwinian evolution theory - according to it complexity evolves without a creator, but also not based on mere chance: The orderly mechanism of selection does the trick. So we have no actual examples of order evolving from mere chaos. …. Even if you claim that outside our universe an infinite number of universes exists, the majority of which are chaotic, and we just happen to inhabit one of the universes in the the infinitely small number of orderly universes, you seem to re-introduce basic order through the back-door. Because there seems to be some orderly process which realizes all possible universes. What about Answer 2? Does it even explain anything to say that something exists necessarily? Sometimes it seems so. Why does the logical law of identity hold .. why is “A=A“ true? Well, it’s true because it’s necessarily true. Why is „3+5=8“ true? It’s true because it’s necessarily true. If you know what „3“ means, know what „5“ means, know what „=„ means and know what „8“ means, then you know that |
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What about Answer 2? Does it even explain anything to say that something exists necessarily? Sometimes it seems so. Why does the logical law of identity hold .. why is “A=A“ true? Well, it’s true because it’s necessarily true. Why is „3+5=8“ true? It’s true because it’s necessarily true. If you know what „3“ means, know what „5“ means, know what „=„ means and know what „8“ means, then you know that necessarily „3+5=8“ is true. So based on this ROUGH MODEL, you could infer that something rather than nothing exists because there’s a necessity - vaguely similar to logical or mathematical necessity - due to which Being itself exists. (It strikes me now that maybe (probably) this is the reason why Plato thought that mathematics almost by itself created the universe - it’s the best example of necessary truths we have. (Even though some question the necessity of mathematics of course).) [2] - Maybe the question is ill-formed and non-sensical as it stands Maybe the question „Why is there something rather than nothing“ is like „Is RusselDust or Hyperflake more identical?“ - a question that is a grammatically correct English sentence but doesn’t mean anything, because it’s ill-formed. But then you have to explain why human beings are in the grip of such strong illusions, which make such questions appear meaningful and important. [3] - Maybe some philosophical questions don’t require theoretical but practical responses Maybe the fact that you can ask yourself why there exists something rather than nothing is a call for action. It tells you that you should live your life in a particular way. It tells you that you should live your life in such a way that Being doesn’t seem like a theoretical problem that needs to be explained and accounted for. It’s a hint for you that there’s a mode of Being-in-the-world in which Being becomes „self-explanatory“ and a cause of celebration rather than explanation. |
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^ are you Immanuel Kant |
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He reminds me of an old member here who was studying philosophy. My god. But he does looks the part. |
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yes i hope i didnt offending welt for having a serious conversation, I joke because i cant think of a decent enough reply, they have quite clearly thought about this a great deal |
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No way could that offend me. It is true, though, that like Kant I've got Prussian / Teutonic blood flowing through my veins. |
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I want welt to feel offended. Anyway, welt, what if answer 1 is happening all the time? Not in the sense Descartes thought happened though. How about a surge of energy building up in another dimension creating another? |
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I created you all |
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"What about Answer 2? Does it even explain anything to say that something exists necessarily? Sometimes it seems so. Why does the logical law of identity hold .. why is “A=A“ true? Well, it’s true because it’s necessarily true. Why is „3+5=8“ true? It’s true because it’s necessarily true. If you know what „3“ means, know what „5“ means, know what „=„ means and know what „8“ means, then you know that necessarily „3+5=8“ is true. " These are just coping mechanisms. |
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ive got b type |
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Well, if something exists necessarily, it exists independent of temporal becoming ... So, yes, that raises the question how that which is necessarily existing relates to the temporal world. ... I'm not sure how I would solve that issue at the moment. But I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting at what you have in mind exactly |
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I thank you for it |
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That was supposed to be a reply to [#02519188] |
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I'll drink some Guiness Stout now |
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I'll have my final beer of the night, a spliff, and a little chloral hydrate syrup. I was just thinking about this quote from someone saying there's a tribe in South America that have no concept of a future or past. In their language it's all about the present, yet they can talk about what they will do or have done. |
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What I find interesting in all this is us trying to cope. |
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have you ever read any Jorge Luis Borges, Russell? |
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Where is fleetmouse? Surely little mouse is in bed and mrs mouse is watching reruns of House. |
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Know of him, and on this embarrassingly-never ending list of stuff to check out. What do you recommend? |
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his short story collection, book of sand, library of babel etc.. Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius Told in a first-person narrative by Borges himself, the story focuses on the author's discovery of the doubly fictional world of Tlön, of which inhabitants are completely idealistic and live imaginative lives. Relatively long for Borges (approximately 5,600 words), the story is a work of speculative fiction. One of the major themes of Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius is that ideas ultimately manifest themselves in the physical world and the story is generally viewed as a parabolic discussion of Berkeleyan idealism, and to some degree as a protest against totalitarianism. |
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Ok, sweet. Thanks. |
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Ok hang on, what do you mean by "doubly fictional"? |
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sorry i copy and pasted that bit it was a quote |
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