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 (nobody)...and 255 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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is there true digital content yet? or is it mostly assimilated analog stuff? i believe so: most of the things we do with digital media could be done using analog media instead. written word, youtube videos, mp3s, i mean we've listened to music before haven't we. all that's different now is that we share our poop with the rest of the world instantly. when photography took off, it didn't take long until moving pictures came up, which led to "film" as a medium, it simply emerged out of a new technology, and provided content which was not possible to deliver using painting, writing, sculpting or theatre, etc.. now with digital, okay we got video games, but imo they're all banal as fuck. all of them. there's simply no deepness to be gained from any of their gameplay that could even scratch the surface of even a purely technical experiment such as . if you say, there's a drama in it well it's simply an aspect assimilated from motion pictures. why is this so? is facebook digital content? twitter messages? oh god... |
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and for reasons of simplicity, by video games i mean any software you interact with. |
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I fail to see any point in that argument. |
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You're wrong about video games. You're even wronger by assuming that worthwhile drama in video games is derived from motion pictures. Your average journalist might think that mimicing hollywood crap is a sign of maturity, but the games that do that are actually the worst. |
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why should there be a point? i'll rephrase: assuming you can define "digital" as a medium just as you can define print, painting, film as media (and i think you can… or not?) , what content is emerging out of this medium and if there is some, (why) is it more banal than what we know from other media? print -> novel, newspaper, .. painting -> portrait, all sorts of genres.. film -> documentary, thriller, etc.. digital -> ..? |
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but digital's not a media per se i think ther's digital painting innit and digital cinema and digital music innit it's more of a technique |
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yep, the essence of video games should not be cinematic drama. Name one video game where you actually experienced something, purely out of the gameplay, which you couldn't have experienced by some other media, or an analog game like chess or football. |
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What a flaccid argument. Radio is moot, we can speak and listen and have music already. Films are rubbish, we already see things every day. Porn is rubbish, I can just spy through windows. |
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There are loads of those, I think Smash TV is a good example. The satire in it is extremely crass and shallow taken by itself, but it actually works because it's a videogame. It's extremely ridiculous, you collect whole year supply of meat bonuses, you mindlessly kill thousands upon thousands of little guys, sometimes for ten minutes without a break. And then there's the pleasuredome, where you collect hundreds of women for five minutes. And you just do it over and over because that's what you must do, that's what you've learned. It's kind of a sickening and mesmerising game, and it would have been stupid and horrible had it been anything other than a video game. |
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instead of digressing, you could name some digital content. also i sure believe digital is a medium … i just think it's at its beginnings, where there's simply no content for it. remember cd players? they're digital, but in fact rather stupid simulations of vinyl players. the digital has so much potential beyond what can be done with film for example (one major point being that it is not bound to physical material. it is the first medium which does not work by modulating the physical structure of a carrier material and than reading that structure, but instead is simply based on matrices of data and encoding/decoding rules). it has so much potential in fact that it kind of appears insulting to say a simplistic mp3 is digital. |
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I was playing Super Smash TV on an emulator just yesterday, difficulty curves sure have gotten shallower through the ages. |
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I wouldn't say digital is a medium, because analogue is not a medium either, as Fabien said: "it's more of a technique." While it's true that a lot of the media produced through digital means can be produced through analogue means, it's mostly easier and farther reaching to do it the digital way. |
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isn't that just the easy route? reducing it to mere production technique for things that already exist is a mistake which is putting innovation on halt (see the vinyl player/cd player analogy), IMO, and is happening with every medium at its beginning. i.e. the first mainstream photographs were portraits etc.. |
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i think i understand what you mean but i'm sure if you're willing to search a little you'll find plenty of sound or video art that couldn't have been made before the advent of digital techniques how about |
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actually that wasn't a good response to what you were saying but heck |
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Is it not innovation to save both time and money on creating something that is more difficult/impossible by any other means? |
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i lost my trailn of thought, there was something about how separating media is getting increasingly arbitrary, about how film could be considered as a more practical flipbook and something to do with abstract programming as art and also computers are just a more practical way to do math that we could somehow do ourselves if we had a whole bunch of free time on our hands but |
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There exists plenty of digital MEDIA, but not so many digital TECHNIQUES. Media is everywhere, movies, mp3s, text, but as you say in many cases they emulate analogue means in the digital domain. To create something truly digital I reckon you have to code it yourself something ala max/msp. But like others said, separate between the media and the techniques. |
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no actually you're right, there is already plenty of 'valid' art (meaning art that goes beyond looking nice, i.e. winamp visuals are not art) playing with digital aesthetics. Take for example… most of this art is exploring the characteristics of digital, i.e. what it is made of etc… much like you would make a film that is exploring the characteristics of celluloid modulating artificial light projected to a screen, it is working with the medium as itself. there is no content to it other than the very medium, or if there is, it is eliminated by the noise of the medium. i.e. imagine you were there when the first audio recordings on wax cylinders happened. i bet you wouldn't care at all about what was being recorded, but rather be very amazed by the sheer fact that it's happening. i just think we're in this very early stage of digital, creating the infrastructure for future content. i'm wondering what it will consist of. |
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The internet is probably the best example of a unique digital medium, while it does a lot in globalising pre-existing techniques (shopping/bidding and audio/visual materials are made readily available for instance,) but there's an emphasis on community - forums and networking sites connect people from all and everywhere, and "user-generated content" is rife. From a strictly entertainment point of view, there's the latest development in 3-D techniques that has, in the eyes of some, transformed the 3-D experience into less of a novelty. |
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how about fractal art and gantz ggraf video. i guess people made psychedelic environments using analog means in the 60s. how about the music of oval? people did music with clicks and shuffles before tho, musique concrète and what not. still these are way beyond just digitizing a youtube video. also, regarding video games, i think the 'choose your own adventure' multiple paths/endings thing sets it apart from movies. which abilities/character you choose, how you level them up etc., impacts the story of the game. |
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i guess i missed the alva noto post tho |
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As well as 3-D films, there are now animation techniques that work on objects, instead of a frame-by-frame basis, and 3D objects can be created. It'd would be damn near inpossible to create a 3D animation without using digital techniques. |
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Descent: yes indeed. this "connecting of people" and its emergent patterns is probably a big part of digital aesthetics. Nowadays, a single computer which is not connected to the web already appears "crippled"… albeit, i still say it's really early in its development. There's just so much noise. Like with the wax cylinders, where you could probably barely hear the music, now the noise consists of the accumulated stupidity of mankind… it will probably take some time until filtering algorithms work well enough so you won't need to actively filter through unwanted information yourself…. glasse: yeah Gantz Graf also has digitalness itself as content. you watch it and your mind goes, "wow… this is so fucking digital!" at least that's what's happening to me… and video games, while they are digital content, i still believe they simply tend to be banal, even artsier indie games. it's probably in the nature of the game. |
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I think I got something. Digital is not a media because, as far as I know, we don't have a sense of digital. We can register visuals, sounds, motion, language, interaction whatever, but digital seems too vague and meaningless a term here. We do have a capacity for math, and can appreciate its beauty, but we didn't wait for computer for that. They just made things a whole lot more practical. I guess to make something truly new we'd need to gain access to some sense we can't stimulate as of now. I don't know, by jacking up our brains or something. It'll be cool. |
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If you said that video games were just an evolution of tabletop games, aided by computers, I'd agree, but I don't really get what you mean by banal. |
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hmm true. digital things are not very tangible (or wait a second. highly popular fruity computer company is working frantically to bring us touchable data..), but yeah, digital is kind of elusive…. it is very unstable and has no physicality. it exists only as an abstract, unstable idea. but this also means, it can take on many forms, and actually excels at combining, comparing and re-encoding existing information …. and so far it has mostly taken forms we're familiar with, i.e. recorded music, text, linear motion picture etc…. but we already have gained ideas of how to define it, how to differentiate it from non-digital, and how to - technically at least - use its characteristics to our advantage. so basically, we have formed the container, an elusive, hard to touch container with unique characteristics, and i don't see anything missing from it to be a medium in itself… we're also using it every day. it's simply new and unprecedented, humans of past generations had to figure out what to do with written language as well… (which leads to the point of… how important is all this? will it have the same impact on humanity as written language has had, or is it all overrated? who can answer that? not our generation for sure) |
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A SEGA Master System is more digital than an X-Box 360 or Play Station 3. There is no fan in the Master System and cartridges are solid state. Newer machines have fans and cd/dvd/blue cheese drives (moving parts even if they contain the digital gas). But anyway, anything digital needs to be converted back to analogue for us to be able to see and/or hear it. |
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teh cake is a lie |
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Only real digital entertainment is sex. Getting hard (ON) blowing your load (OFF). |
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:D |
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, or at least what this person says makes sense to me. |
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I consider digital to be a medium rather than a media. Good for delivery and storage. |
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what have letters done for me? how do they speak better for me than these pictures i draw in my cave? :) |
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so while i was having a really good poop session, it occured to me that >>drumroll<< digital content is software in all its variations. :selfpalm: |
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