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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMiTlNN_Uw&feature=user |
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too lazy to link !? hit the lazy link button |
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Oh right! sorry- didn't realise that's what that was... cheers dude. |
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By the way, I am not a vegan trying to get people to be vegan as well. I am vegetarian, who, after seeing that video on YouTube, is considering being Vegan. |
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im not trying to make anyone vegan ....i only mentioned rice milk the other day. although i love all life and wouldn't eat anything from an animal ....except a bit of accidental mud off a lettuce leaf, ( which could be poo. :P haha |
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LOL- innit, man. =) |
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you should check out how they get milk for billions of people and enough milk for the calves at the same time...its beyond sick. and totally Unnatural. |
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you know, plants are living things, too. Murderers! |
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sorry :) ...thanks for the link.. this subject drains people unfortunately so i must retreat before i upset my friends. which prob arnt reading anyway. peace:P |
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not sentient tho. that we know off ...i'm pretty darn sure mammals are, as i am one too. :P so id rather take a risk and eat plants! |
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I respect people that believe plants can feel pain (those of you laughing, try to imagine that there is more to belief than science for some people), but I don't agree with them. You obviously don't believe that anyway Zephyr, because if you did you wouldn't eat them yourself, and if you do believe it, then you are going agianst your own beliefs. I know you were just joking though man... =) |
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No worries for posting the vid, Freqy. Glad it was enlightening for you. I was look for info on milking. THough I am not sure if I want to- I mean, I could raise my own chickens, but a cow would just be completely impractical! =D |
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Well, I don't know if plants can 'feel' pain one way or the other, but I do know that life/survival is pain, and denying it is pointless. Early human beings survived because they didn't hesitate to hunt living animals. Be glad your ancestors could do what you aren't willing to, you owe them your existence. I respect your choice to be vegetarian, though. That leaves more delicious, juicy meat for me. :) |
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Respect it? Oh yeah, because Neanderthals would be so grateful for my respect that they would probably show it in their primitive way by spitting on me or something. What, are you proud not to have evolved or something? That means as much to me as if you'd said 'appreciate your freedom, that the Americans won for you in WWII'... And I completely respect your right to eat meat. However, if you saw the way animals were killed or were asked to kill them yourself, I think you would change your mind. |
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"Early human beings survived because they didn't hesitate to hunt living animals. Be glad your ancestors could do what you aren't willing to, you owe them your existence. " they could have survived eating plants but they learnt how to build traps. humans are incapable of catching anything without a gun or trap. or without cooking the meat as our digestive system is geared toward slow digestion ...unlike dogs.. humans evolved as herbivores., then they got greedy and insane. and now....just look at what multi nationals get up too! So you dont have too!. you owe them a beating for lying and feeding you poison and torturing inocent life. convenience is the only excuse and tradional mind washing ( turkey for christamas??? yeah like god intended ! !! nnnnnnnnn. |
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Well said, sir! |
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"What, are you proud not to have evolved or something?" Don't be so defensive. I'm talking about modern man, not the evolution from an earlier species to Homo sapiens sapiens. Man has lived off the land in every respect, eating not only fruits, veggies, berries and nuts, but animal meat, too. In fact, since tree-dwelling monkeys and apes eat mostly fruits and vegetation, if anything, I'm proud to have evolved. I'd love to ignore the whole WWII thing, but besides the fact that it was an unnecessary reference, I have to ask: do you honestly feel that your ancestors ate nothing but vegetables? "However, if you saw the way animals were killed or were asked to kill them yourself, I think you would change your mind." How do you know I haven't? I've caught, cleaned, and eaten fish right out of rivers before. That I've never hunted with a rifle before doesn't keep me from understanding their necessity in survival situations. That being said, I will never condone hunting or fishing for sport. The animal must be eaten or it's a cruel waste of life. "humans are incapable of catching anything without a gun or trap" wrong, they had created tools long before the advent of guns, such as spears, blow-darts, slings, bolas, and bow and arrow, not to mention the most obvious tool: it has been demonstrated on countless documentaries and films that tribesman and survivalist are able to catch many a meal with their bare hands. |
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"or without cooking the meat as our digestive system is geared toward slow digestion" If that's true, how do you account for sushi/sashimi? or oysters? or steak tartare? there are foods that humans can easily consume raw. Surely you've seen a nature program where insects are eaten by one culture or another? Human beings need protein, and insects are a wonderful source of it. yes, even eaten raw. That protein can be found in plant sources doesn't instantly negate the benefit of eating meat, which is rich in the essential amino acids humans need. In fact, consuming vegetables raw often leads to gas and bloating, as our digestive systems are not very efficient at breaking them down. |
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the thing is plants down have super cute faces |
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Would you eat eggs and chickens if they were treated right? |
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Eggs, not chicken. |
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I would prefer to see the chicken in a petting zoo ad given a good life. Too many chickens are brought into the world. Just as thre are people. This is an over populated planet. It is the fact thatv chickens are mass produced product that gets me. the sanctity of life is completely obliterated in light of this. I am not sure if I believe in reincarnation directly, but it is a nice idea to help us respect life. |
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I don't know, I just never go to KFC, those "buckets" (great) filled with bits of chickens that look like they've been let loose on a minefield then covered with ... the Colonel's deep fried spunk, well... I'd rather have a kebab. |
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Yes, humans leave a wake of hell. Search for 'factory farming' or the youtube 'eartlings' is disturbing too. Artificial selection and genetic engineering make it worse. Then we make happy cartoon chickens/cows depicted in sunshiny meadows, as traitors to their species falsely advertising their respective 'product' on the package. Nature may be red in tooth and claw, but at least creatures in healthy ecosystems (ie mostly ones from the past) can experience beauty. Everything works together and you can exist feeling like you 'fit'. Every day is likely filled with harrowing potential for violence, but with the exception of the Sarlacc, deaths are mostly over relatively quick. For the definition of evil, 'causing pain intentionally', humans do worse than nature I think. They remove creatures from their environment lock which they fit in like a key, and put them in stressful artificial environments where they live in virtual hells day after day. Human technology likely reduces biohappiness, defined as mean happiness of all earth creatures. When you drive your car near alligators they interpret the engine noise as other males and react territorially. The point is its something that fucks with the system they belong to and had no time to adapt to. Every modern creature has to deal with things like this. We made lightbulbs which moth evolution couldn't forsee. Transportation hacks up ecosystems and puts them together upside down causing havok with asymmetrical relationships. |
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Thank you for that, w M w. I completely agree with every word you just said. I wish people that eat meat could take a step back and see things as they are, as you clearly do. But why do I have a feeling that you're not a vegetarian? |
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"the thing is plants down have super cute faces" I don't even know why I am bothering to reply to such a ridiculous remark, but... I have been a vegetarian for 12 years. If it was just about the cute faces when I was young, my vegetarianism wouldn't have lasted very long, dodn't you think? In addition, most animals eaten in Britain aren't particularly cute. Chickens? No. Sheep, cows? Certainly not. Lamb? Yes, but the ones that are so young they're cute aren't eaten anyway. Therefore your point is moot. |
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And who said vegetarians don't have a sense of humor? |
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not a reply to the above posters all i know is that it is near impossible to explain the truth to a meat eater on an internet forum with their mind basically closed. i was once closed minded too....i did laugh at a friend once and called him a lier when he said he didn't eat meat i could not believe he didn't eat meat he looked so healthy i thought he was taking the piss. what ? my family have been feeding me animals and i dont need to eat them to be healthy? eh?? man that was so weird that day . took me 2 weeks of eating meat served to me before i said enough !! this is insane. i hadnt even seen the factory farming. errg, einstein was right and carl lewis too. |
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The main protein substitutes for meat are nuts and beans, spinich... Actually I ate eggs occasionally, figuring a single unfertilized cell doesn't feel much pain, but now I wonder if its more ethical to just end the life of the poor bastard doing the laying. But still I eat meat very rarely. When I do its almost always fish, usually tuna, because fish supposedly feel less pain at least. By the way since tuna are high in the food chain they contain lots of mercury, nice ones humans. Too bad photosynthesis didn't end up being the only eating method possible for evolution to exploit. Probably brains wouldn't have developed then at least not nearly as quick. But being a vegetarian is almost irrelevant if you reproduce. If you eat meat and have no kids, that's 1x life of eating meat. If you don't eat meat and have 2 kids who each have 2 kids who each have 2 kids, that's 8x lives of eating meat in only those few generations. Besides vegetarians will always be a minority of what is now 6.6 billion and growing population. |
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"I will never condone hunting or fishing for sport. The animal must be eaten or it's a cruel waste of life. " This struck a nerve with me and before I explain, please understand that I'm not attacking you, I'm just feeling a little vigorous at the moment.... I don't know about your country, but in my country hunting for game is very much a controlled affair. On game farms you can hunt for sport when a certain population of bok gets too much for the environment. While I will never be able to pull the trigger, I am glad for those who do, not as a means of survival, but for the tasty biltong and droewors that comes from it. Well, that and keeping population figures under control. As for fishing, oh man, don't get me started. Fish don't have feelings, they don't have nervous systems. When my hook catches a fish it doesn't feel a thing! Nevermind them having recall memory of about a millisecond. They are fucking drones. I can catch a whole school of bass and let them watch as I fuck their mother by the side of the river. Put them back in the water, they peacefully swim away like nothing ever happened*. Fishing is only bad when a certain population is near extinction. As for me, I catch and release. Bass are in abundance in our rivers during summer. Trout a little less so in some rivers, but trout farming is pretty big here so no danger of extinction there. * I will admit, there are times when they look a bit traumatised after putting them back in the water, taking a while to start swimming again. This is just them getting used to the water again. Like I said, in a few seconds they won't remember a thing. |
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AAGHGGHGHH HAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAAAaaaa HHAHAHAAAAaaaaa that made me soo happy! all the stupid dumbfuck halfwitt i only eat free range organic happy food tossers have been paying thru their arses for eggs from birds that have as shitter time as those that live in cages all thier lives, in fact no, worse there supporting torturing those 'lucky' free range beautys, some days they see the sun some they dont at least the caged badboys never see the sun, so know no different. all this stuff about humans not needing meat, we may not need it but we are designed to eat it, we have a set up of teeth that are designed to eat a varied diet, either that or we have kanines so that when a fuckin lettuce is running away from us we can pounce on it and use our teeth to sever its neck lioness style... oh wait lettii dont run, or have necks... ive actually jus stopped and asked myself why am i ranting this out? like veggis will say about anyone who eats meat is too bone headed to listen to and accept thier pov most veggis are so built up on their moral high horses that they, they well there just big stupid dummies. fuck PETA join PWEETA |
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"If you eat meat and have no kids, that's 1x life of eating meat. If you don't eat meat and have 2 kids who each have 2 kids who each have 2 kids, that's 8x lives of eating meat in only those few generations. Besides vegetarians will always be a minority of what is now 6.6 billion and growing population." Depends if your kids eat meat, as well l will never force mine too, though I would like them to be veggies. And i think it is importsnt for childless individuals to be vegetarian. they are setting an example for others, which is important. Surely that is like saying that there's no ppoint in voting, since single votes don't count. Other than that I do agree with most of your dietary preferences, w M w. I mean, it used to annoy me when people said they were vegetarian, yet ate fish. Now I see that it is eveyone to their own- the smaller ammount of meat people eat, the better, to whatever degree. |
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"This struck a nerve with me and before I explain, please understand that I'm not attacking you, I'm just feeling a little vigorous at the moment...." As long as hunting is does ONLY to control numbers, I suppose it is fair enough. In advocation of what you said, in would be in the hunters' interest not to drive species to extinction, as they enjoy hunting, and without the animals they won't be able to hunt. |
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how do you fuck tards actually come to these sorta conclusions? |
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"AAGHGGHGHH HAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAAAaaaa HHAHAHAAAAaaaaa that made me soo happy! all the stupid dumbfuck halfwitt i only eat free range organic happy food tossers have been paying thru their arses for eggs from birds that have as shitter time as those that live in cages all thier lives, in fact no, worse there supporting torturing those 'lucky' free range beautys, some days they see the sun some they dont at least the caged badboys never see the sun, so know no different." That farm was an excpetion to the rule, so most free range farm chickens are treated much bettr than those. And I am glad it was exposed- now I can do something about it, like become vegan or something. it shows how farmers and agriculturists don't gvie a flying cow shit about their animals and only see them as a commodity. That was why I laughed so hard at the foot and motuh crisis. it was like karma- the murderers getting their livelihoods taken away for what all the lives they had senselessly ended throughout their lives. It is a shame that so many cows had their lives shortened, but under he owndership of bloodthirsty and money-hungry farmers, they wouldn't have met a much more pleasant end anyway. In relation to PWEETA, I quite amused there is such a group. Not that it really does anything. It is just some bored ignoramus that felt like doing like whatever he could to offend people. It's not really worth uttering in sentence next to PETA, a legitamate pressure group. it encourages the eating of PEOPLE! Seriously. You really shot yourself in the foot with this one, buddy. "Korea is to cats & dogs what Hitler was to Jews! Cat soup is the preferred way to eat cat meat !" WARNING: NOT eating cat leads to hyperbole!" - This is the noun hyperbole not even used in its correct context. It makes no sense. Lastly, if we want to eat meat and catch heart disease or one of several related forms of cancer, then be guest. I have to say though, my friend- I don't actually want you to die, but if you did from eating too much meat, |
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then I certainly wouldn't miss your misguided little rants. "The English REALLY eat Irish babies- and they taste good." WTF... Seriously man. if you condone the eating of live children, I don't just disagree with you, I want you to seek help. Or better still, be locked up. |
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lolz the pweeta link was added for fun, its there, as the site says somewhere on it to put a point accross that is as ridiculous as the vegan/veggie bullsh that is so common these days. i dont condone eating human but i can say with hand on heart i would. 'That was why I laughed so hard at the foot and motuh crisis. it was like karma- the murderers getting their livelihoods taken away for what all the lives they had senselessly ended throughout their lives.' think again veggi, any half sensible beef farmer had his cattle insured, and was paid out for them a better sum than the cows would have fetched at market. granted those that didnt farm for beef lost out but then is it fair that ur laughing at the guys who raised heards and kept them healthy tending to them daily and milking so that ur cornflakes aint all crispy. i'm sorry that i cant understand/come to your way of thinking, but it just aint right, animals are for eating. I dont keep pets, and any i have had are working animals, used to catch other animals to feed me or the animal i keep. next ur gonna tell me ur glad they banned hunting with dogs, hence the reason mine was shot.... |
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"how do you fuck tards actually come to these sorta conclusions?" Forgive me for using so much advanced lexis that you're likely to be unfamiliar with my friend, but my opinions on vegetariansim and hunting and such are result of having this little thing I like to call a B-R-A-I-N. Now, I don't expect you to understand this straight away. I mean, perhaps I have already overloaded your system with the idea of people having cognitive capacity. However, I would like to propose another idea to you. Some people (not your good self of course) are said to have a C-O-N-S-C-I-E-N-C-E. Details of which can be found below. I will briefly try to explain, though- the idea is that people have the ability to decide what is not and what is bad. Then to do what they feel is right. I, for example, am the proud owner a conscience. And as a result of this, I can make judgements such as that of dietary preference based on the treatment of animals. Now, rather than microwave yuor cat for dinner tonight, or torture you dog, or whatever it is that you do on a Thursday evening, I would like you to read these two Wiki articles and tell me what you think of them. Class dismissed! You treat me like a sub-intelligent being, I'll do the same to you. |
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Hunting dogs are only bred for hunting. They can't be pets. It was humans fault they were bred like wild dogs and humans fault they were culled. Dogs are mankind's slaves. that's just something that is sad but true. Plus hunting is still allowed in some areas, so not all dogs were killed. Probably hardly any of them. |
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do those two sites come in pop up book form? there just not commanding my attention like they could. conscience, i have one, i make a consious decision not to buy organic, free range or fair trade because of enviro-green-animal-dicks. brain, i'm not w M w, how the hell else do i work this computer? |
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People can say oh i'm a vegan or vegetarian, but the truth is you're an omnivore in denial. You know those 2 sharper teeth you have (the third front teeth on either side?) those are your "canines" and they're genetically designed for ripping the meat off animal bodies. the problem is not with eating meat, it's that there's way, way too many fucking people on the planet now- so conditions are shitty for the animals. But that's the only way to manage our resources now. Eventually we'll either blast off into space and build matter replicators that synthesize or meat for us. Or a gigantic meteor will come and wipe the ill equipped species like it did with the dinosaurs, in which case nature is more of a jerk than we ever were. |
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hunting dogs, ie, the ones chasing foxes followed by people on horses are hounds, not dogs. please tell me where hunting with dogs is still allowed? my dog wasnt a hound it was a lurcher, a cross breed of several different dogs, it was kinda like a pet, i used to walk him, feed him look after him, but he had a purpose i let him do natural things like chase rabbits and foxes and, shock horror KILL them. seein as that was the purpose for which i kept the dog, when peoples like you who lobbied to ban me from hunting with him, he was killed. Being as u have a consious, i hope my dog is on yours. |
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Nah- some deaths are necessary. You can't be such a hypocrite as to be a dick, then ask for sympathy. We're both human beings and should show either kindnes, but it is a reciprocal thing. And for the record, I didn't do any lobbying against fox-hunting, though i strongly disagreed with it. If you have a hunting dog, you run the risk on your own volition of fox hunting being banned and the dog being killed. And you only fed him and walked him because it gave you pleasure, not because you respect animals or the sanctity of life and the beauty of looking after and carin for another being. Therefore don't bother tryign to pull that crap on me. =) |
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If i could meet you in real life, outside of this thread, I would just like to say I am sorry that you dog was put to sleep. Even though it was nothing to do with me. |
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Just don't forget that we are a part of nature too, as is our intelligence and survival skills. If all life is the great lake of energy's reflection of itself, or the universe trying to figure itself out through untold quadrillion sets and leaves and singled celled organisms, how do we know we're not doing exactly what we should be doing to fulfill our own quota consciousness exploration and universal intelligence gathering for a that energy which spawned everything (ie- the opposite of nothing.) Gonna eat my sandwich. |
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sets of eyes* |
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"And for the record, I didn't do any lobbying against fox-hunting, though i strongly disagreed with it." Its not fox hunting thats been banned, its hunting with dogs. and why would you disagree with fox hunting anyways? have you seen what happens when a fox gets inside a chicken coup? cause they sure as hell dont have any respect for the sanctity of life. |
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dont be sorry, i twisted that tail (geddit tail..) a bit, my dog had a tumor around the same time as the ban came in, so i tell anti's he was destroyed because they destroyed his purpose in life, really it was to stop him having to go through a slow and painfull death, .22 is alot quicker than brain tumors. |
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Oh right. So you shot it? "and why would you disagree with fox hunting anyways? have you seen what happens when a fox gets inside a chicken coup? cause they sure as hell dont have any respect for the sanctity of life." If we didn't affect their environent so much, meaning they have no prey, they wouldn't eat chickens as often. And (I am mostly joking) if everyone was vegetarian, we wouldn't need to keep so many chickens together. The fact that they are penned together makes them vulnerable. Therefore, once again, it is mankind's own fault. |
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