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? I remember when people were all "who needs all that space anyway?" when discussing ps3 vs 360. I'm going to have to buy a ps3 just for this game... |
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theres advances in technology and theres taking the piss. |
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wait, so the english version isn't gonna have the japanese track, or are we gonna miss other stuff as well.. |
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because you understand japanese right? |
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It seems like they've been cutting into other things already ("We always talked about where to cut and what to compress."). I'm guessing the "extra material" was some of the first to go. I wouldn't mind it being a two disc release at all.. Metal Gear Solid 1 was, and it was still awesome! |
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Did you buy a 360 with hd-dvd attachment or something? |
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japanese dialogue - i'm cool with that. pointless bonus material - i can live with. ANYTHING ELSE and you're pushing the line! "sorry guys. we kinda had to cut all the story and dialogue from the game to fit in the gameplay. the game is just as good though, i swear!" |
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Hahaha! "There's a mechanical ninja! Do you need more?" Imagine a two full blu-ray MGS game... |
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haha with a mgs game spanning over two blu-ray discs, you could finally play mgs2 as originally intended. a battle against hundreds upon hundreds of metal gear rays. you'd be fighting them off for what seems like an eternity, and after you destroy around 200 or so, a text box pops up 'please insert disc 2'. |
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i loved metal gear solid. i had dreams about it. and fell in love with the sniper wolf. |
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Sounds good to me. |
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MGS4 is definitely going to be the best game ever but always take what Kojima says with a huge mound of salt, that guy is the king of hype and is a Sony fanboy of epic proportions. The truth is the game itself could fit on a single 360 disc, it's the massive amount of uncompressed audio that won't fit. Unfortunately I don't have a nice sound system so it means little to me. Don't expect this game to be the biggest action game ever or anything. I bet it's nowhere near as long as even Resident Evil 4. It will be the best 15-17 hours ever spent though. We're nowhere near the point where Blu-Ray is THAT big of an advantage. Maybe by the second or third Grand Theft Auto PS3 installment we'll see it making a really tangible difference beyond ridiculous amounts of lossless audio. |
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they should put it on a laserdisc. they are much bigger. |
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So it's come to this, the future of video games is dialogue no one should care about in uncompressed audio for your rich bastard's home cinema system where you won't hear a difference. |
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hahaha |
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i couldnt finish resident evil 4. way too long for me.. |
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If Ratchet and Clank managed to use as much space as they did without it being about voices, I have little doubt that MGS actually uses the whole disc without it being about voices.. they've probably gone for megatextures and stuff like that. |
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Have you even played Ratchet? What sets THAT game apart from DVD-9 games? Nothing. Apparently that and Resistance are 20+ gigs each, but that's so misleading. Those are fuck awesome games but most of the space is just more uncompressed and even dummy data. Ratchet has shitloads of speech and cutscenes in FIFTEEN languages with very high quality sound, plus HD FMV with nearly perfect image quality. It's a nice perk to have the space to not have to compress, but it's not a huge deal and the game assets could easily be pared down to 9 gigs or less. The game is no bigger than the PS2 games and if the 360 can run Bioshock, Insomniac could get Ratchet on there, piece of cake. And you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think MGS4 is going to have ''megatextures''. Just look at the shots and the videos, this game is great artistically but it's not special technically. It's not going to challenge Uncharted, and Sony fanboys will have to wait until Killzone 2 before they can point and laugh at X-bots. Remember when Kojima said this game would have fully dynamic destructable environments and all the screenshots released were in 1080p? And the game was going to be 60fps like MGS2? Pure bullshit on all counts of course, definitely not true. He's just thumping his chest and towing the Sony party line AGAIN. God bless this brilliant wacky jappy, but don't take him too seriously. Just enjoy the fruits of his eccentricity. Final Fantasy 13 could maybe fill up a Blu-Ray LEGITIMATELY. |
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Yeah, I played it, and we even tried all languages (though not all of them are on the disc. Some have to be downloaded from the web; it didn't work when our router went down).. and that it isn't compressed.. did you consider how much space even those languages that are included on the disc would take if they weren't compressed? It's compressed. Also, it seems now that metal gear online will indeed be on a separate disc, but that could be pure conjecture/internets rumour. I still don't get all the comments ('round the web) going "HAh! Yeah u can watch ur game lolz. Ima play mine, like, ninja gayden YEAH!#" Gamers don't like games. They just like moving their fingers. |
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OK, just for argument's sake let's pretend the languages and compression isn't a big deal. What was it about Ratchet and Clank Future, just the game content, that makes you think it couldn't be done on a DVD? I mean, I'm a member of the Sony Defense Force, don't get me wrong, but I just can't see why you think Ratchet and Clank, of all games, LEGITIMATELY contains too much data for a DVD... meanwhile Grand Theft Freakin' Auto 4, which is probably 20 times bigger, DOES fit? And Crysis? And Bioshock? They don't need Blu-Ray, but Ratchet and Resistance do? It doesn't add up. And oh yeah, I'm as excited for Metal Gear Online as I am for MGS4, actually. Man do I ever miss Subsistence Online. I can't wait to revisit some of the old maps from that game. I used to run around grabbing people's testicles all night. |
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I think at this point it's more interesting to look at it from an inverse angle, as it were: to look at instances where the DVD9-format is proving insufficient. Just recently, Lost Odyssey was released on 4 dvds, which is some indication that already people need to take compression into account if they still wish to make everything fit on a single DVD (whether single or dual layer)... It was the same with CD-games back in the day of the original Playstation. For cartridge-run machines it was never a problem, because you could usually simply increase the size of the cartridges. With discs, with fixed sizes, these issues are always a consideration, at least for those with bigger plans for their games. But there's always variation from under-using to over-using the standard format size. Cinematic and role-playing games will be at the overachieving end of the spectrum. I think Blu-Rays will INEVITABLY be deemed insufficient when they are the industry standard - after all, why else would there be incentive for development? People will want more, more, more... Technological progress runs on the premise of blasting through established boundaries, and so be it. |
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Oh I agree with you, like I said in my first post, the time will come where the Blu-Ray will really be important. By the time Final Fantasy 13 rolls around, or new Grand Theft Auto installment the scale of San Andreas, MAYBE it will make a tangible difference with regards to the quality and amount content, and also affect public perception. We're not at that point yet. MGS and Ratchet aren't the series' to really showcase this technology, and Lost Odyssey is little more than a footnote. If GTA5 comes out and the Xbox 360 version requires you to switch discs when you go to another city... THEN you'll see real fallout, and Blu-Ray will have finally done something substantial. Kojima's words and boasts, especially considering his relationship with Sony, are very poor evidence that is an important advantage yet, or that he couldn't do it on a competing platform. The PS3 hasn't done anything truly consequential with the Blu-Ray medium to set it apart from the 360 yet. The idea that a 10-12 hour game with real-time cutscenes, mediocre textures and architecture couldn't be done justice on the 360 is a little silly. If MGS4 is 50 gigs, 40 of them will be the result of Kojima jacking off on a disc. |
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I think it's mostly the textures. If you look at the textures of those other games you mentioned and at ratchet and clank (running on a screen with the correct resolution, mind you), you'll see a noticeable difference.. even with Crysis... And I'm not saying the voices aren't the main gigabyte hog, I'm just saying that's not all, and it probably isn't just some marketing plot.. unless you define having good quality as a marketing plot (when it becomes an argument against something that it has good quality (like certain gamers argue), something is wrong). You can tell Kojima doesn't care about marketing in that way when he keeps pushing release dates. |
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I do agree that the texture work is awesome, but I really can't agree that THAT requires Blu-ray. Most aren't even very high-res, they can't be hogging much space... look at how cartoony the game is, it's not reliant on fine detail and big memory hogging textures. I think you're reaching. Besides, the game runs at a silky perfect 60fps. They definitely cut corners on the textures and environments to make that happen. Insomniac's artists are ridiculously talented and the game looks better than the sum of its parts. |
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Wait, to clear something up about what I said regarding Lost Odyssey and GTA... Lost Odyssey is a JRPG. Does it REALLY matter to people that they have to switch a disc at a specific story point every 20 hours? Is it going to dissuade other devs from making these games? I've seen no complaints, it hasn't hindered the gameplay or held back the content. Whereas GTA (or games like the Elder Scrolls) give you free reign over a world and you can go anywhere and do anything, any time. DVDs could DEFINITELY gimp a game like GTA, and really get Joe Gamer to take notice. Imagine crossing a bridge to get to the other island and you have to switch discs... OUCH. Anyway, that's a long way off. GTA4 fits on a DVD. |
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Well, the thing is, I can't remember seeing those "repeat marks" on textures, making me think they're starting to get how that can sometimes ruin a game's visual appeal. Although, I'm more than satisfied if they actually fill up a disc with voices, etc, as I mostly play games for their story (I didn't get far into Ratchet and Clank because it got boring with such a minimal story), or, if there's good two-player where you can be social, that helps (we're playing golf now, even though EA is a cunt company). I never got that fps hangup.. mostly because of the refresh rates on screens implying you'll have to use some form of vertical sync in most case... Yeah, I'm waiting for FFXIII too.. Hoping they're pushing boundaries again.. I would also like to see another FFVII or IX-ish game from them... |
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This Lost Odyssey talk has me excited.. is it good (meaning: Is the story good)? I'm also really excited about the next Silent Hill although I'm having reservations about Americans making it. They'd better be good terror/horror Americans! Plus.. Have you played Penumbra? I haven't actually played them myself, but one of the other guys I'm living with has it, and it looks awesome! Black Plague doesn't have a single weapon and looks absolutely terrifying (if you play it in the right setting). Joy! Also.. "The Experiment" or Experiment 112 or Experience 112 or whatever it's called wherever in the world looks great! Finally something at least slightly novel that also seems to have a more puzzle-solving/story focus. |
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If you like Final Fantasy, you'll probably like Lost Odyssey. It's not exactly the same, but both series' were created by the same mind and ''spiritual successor'' isn't a bad way to describe it. I haven't really gotten into it yet, maybe during the summer doldrums. Personally I really don't like turn based battles, so that's putting me off. I'm basically just in it for the worlds/characters/stories and I don't like the progress halting so I can beat up on a slime for 30 seconds. That's why I loved FF12's battle system. It was more passive and just flowed better. Silent Hill Origins for PSP is really good and was made by an American team. But Silent Hill 5 is not looking so good... the monsters are unintentionally hilarious rather than creepy. |
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But I choose to remain optimistic anyway. Fuck I wish I could edit posts. I never finish my thoughts. |
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I'll have a friend who has a brother who has a 360 ask him to buy it so that he can borrow it. Then we'll see. Turn based battles and all that gameplay doesn't matter much to me as long as the story works with it.. it's the reason why I like both Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill even though gameplay differs a lot from game to game; They've been going at it in a holistic manner, making the gameplay and the story fit each other.... |
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god, I still haven't unwrapped my FFXII, maybe I'll do it tomorrow... should be fun. but, like drunken mastah, i don't really mind old school turn based rpgs. Nirvana, for me, is a never-ending random battle... Oh shit, that's scary! better watch out what you wish for... |
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Yeah.. I'm, like, 120 hrs into ffxii, and I've still got to beat hell wyrm, that last summon thing, omega, and that thing that appears after you've killed the two first ones. Then I can fly off to Bahamut. |
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I don't think playing games for the story is very healthy. |
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I watched my cousin play through Silent Hill 2 a couple months ago, it was still awesome and I actually saw a new ending. I guess he's a lot better at the game than I was because he got the girl, meanwhile I remember getting the ending where I drove off a cliff and died. I don't generally play games for the story though. All my favorite series' (MGS, Silent Hill, Thief, Hitman, Earthbound, Deus Ex, System Shock, etc) are story heavy in different ways, but it's mainly their atmospheres and moods that draw me in, tweak my imagination and ultimately stick with me. The narratives often tend to be almost incidental when I really get immersed in a game and start thinking of my own rationalizations and reasons for being there and doing what I'm doing. OR SOMETHING |
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That's the thing, though. A good story almost automatically creates a good atmosphere.. or at least it does so when told by master story tellers. Anyway, I had a new question for reviving this thread: Have you seen all the MGS trailers coming out? I'm kind of just keeping away because I don't want to know too much beforehand. However, it's also possible that what you're told in the trailers is just scratching the surface or something (someone said something about 90minute in-game cutscenes! Awesome!). I'd just like to know if any of the trailers are non-informative, as in, they just contain snake doing cool things or some cool "tech showoffs" or something. |
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i would rather have mgs4 in japanese with english subs |
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watch the PMC TV spots! |
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