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 (nobody)...and 307 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Cliches aside, this book changed my life... it seems to accurately describe many of the thoughts and feelings i've felt while on mushrooms.... it gave me a new confidence in questioning my own perceptions of the world around me, and the universe as a whole. Has anyone read it? |
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can't believe i just spelt his name wrong |
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it's a fantastic book - have you read sartre's trilogy? very interesting. if you like sartre, check out albert camus - his book, l'etranger (the outsider) changed me when i was 16 and studying for an english essay -- read it, then read the plague, which ostensibly deals with a real-life outbreak of the plague |
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I did start it but put it down. I didn't make a real effort. I've just bought Octave Mirbeau's the Torture Garden. I've been meaning to get it for years after seeing the quote on the back of the Manic's Holy Bible. Anyone read it? Best book I've read recently is 'Sheepshagger' by Niall Griffiths. I highly recommend it. |
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Nope - only got Being and Nothingness - Currently reading "Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" - highly recommended!!! |
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by douglas r hofstader :) and didn't finish b&n - maybe some day? |
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Well, as for me, I'm currently struggling with Derrida, but I've read Camus' books that marlowe recommended and I strongly second his opinion. Oh, and I haven't read the "Torture garden" book, but I have John Zorn's album of the same name and it kick's ass (first Zorn album i ever heard as a matter of fact). |
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I didn't really see what the fuss was about the Outsider. My girlfriend made me read it. I guess I didn't get it. |
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I'm currently reading the Basketball Diaries arf, arf. |
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jonesy: Really? The outsider really left a strong impact on me. I read it about 13-14 years ago when I was in highschool and it was one of the rare books that we had to read that I liked. I found it to be a really strong critique of our alienating societies (sic), without sounding preachy or anything. |
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Needs to be more preachy, like me! I think it lacked any class analysis. |
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you're right. It didn't want to mess with political level (although in a way it touched on it), it tried to give a view of a person that is tired of trying to figure out how it is that society functions and instead just smashing through it. Not linked to class or ideology. |
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I was just being a dogmatic Marxist. Did you hear about the 2million demosntration in Rome? Waht would a postmodernist make of this? Are the masses just passive consumers? |
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jonesy: yeah, I was wondering when you were going to bring this up. Well, as far as our media presented it, these demonstrations started as protest against Red Brigades assassination. So what do you make of that? 2 mill people protesting against the revolution? |
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Marlowe: I am reading The Plague right now.... its an excellent book, and quite funny in places i think. |
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Ha, ha. They were protesting against the labour laws that Burlesconi is drawing up. Blair, Burlesconi and the Spanish PM (forgot his name) are trying to draw up anti-union employment laws; a direct attack on worker's rights. There is a planned general strike for next month. People have been and were protesting against Burlesconi and his far right government. It is thought Burlesconi had a hand in this killing of the government aid. There was a demonstration in Barcelona the weekend before of 500,000. |
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This Burlesconi spelling, that's your inside marxist joke, right? |
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Of course, ahem. |
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Anyway, there are some theories that say that unions only serve capital as they engage workers with "minor" issues and prevent them from performing their revolutionary role. Not that I have a definite opinion on this, mind you. |
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Yeah I agree. Union leaders suck arse and sell out their membership. The demonstration in Barcelona however was a joining between anti-capitalists and trade unionists. This is a wider movement outside of the unions and also with the unions. In Seattle they coined the Teamsters and Turtles alliance. |
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I love to see this anti-globalist, anti-capitalist thing getting a wider following (10 years ago it was just a handful of anarchist troublestarters, as far as I was aware). But anyway, they are still concerned with issues of "social justice" and "equality", all suspicious terms in my book. (I'm such a reactionary, I know) |
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oh existentialism....isn't it? |
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Rik:UH? |
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What's wrong with social justice and equality? Are you a nihilist? |
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He means Satre |
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Sartre ! :) back to the top - hehe .. |
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Don't mean to unecessarily intrude on this conversation .. but why does one have to be a nihilist to not believe in social justice and equality??? |
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jonesy: yeah, I know he meant Sartre but I realised what thread we're on only after posting. And, no, I'm not a nihilist: I don't believe in being a nihilist (this is ultra-nihilistic, I know) for the same reason I don't believe in justice or equality. They don't exist, not in a real sense, they're just approximations of an ideal and as far as we agree on that, I'm fine. So, "social justice" for me sounds the same as "God's justice", much as "equality" means "equality before god". I read too much Stirner for my own good... |
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hey jonsey, if you want a cheap(ish) copy of torture garden contact (re)search publications, its where i got mine from I read the outsider not so long ago too Im quite convinced its what The Cure based their song "killing an arab" on... (useless aside) |
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" I've just started reading the aforementioned book "Godel, Escher, Bach:..." but its wicked re: anti-objectivism (if you like - dunno if i'm using that term properly) !! - a bit of a different angle from stirner !! |
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Korben: your intrusion is welcome, otherwise it's down to me and ol' jonesy, as everyone else stirs well clear... |
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You aren't necessarily a nihilist. This is a conversation that me and Meho have been having for ages so relates to comments past. |
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I'll have to get a hold on that book... |
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Xtiaan: cheers but I picked up a copy last week. Thanx any howz. |
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:) not that well read in contemporary politics - tho have a little theory i think could rescue marxism [posted a while back] - theory is what i like :) |
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Share it dude. |
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And I'm not a nihilist, anyway, i don't subscribe to any ideology whatsoever. (does that actually make me a nihilist?) |
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oh, yeah, Korben: out with it!! |
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ie. theory and philosophy - epistemology/ontology - |
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haha!!! - just a mo |
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wh? |
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Meho: if you have no morals i believe you are a nihilist. Not sure about ideology. |
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still will have holes etc. but nice enough. but um.. yeah .. a bit rusty on the marxian terminology... my idea in a nutshell is that all labour will be/should be substituted with technology .. ie in a sense it comes full circle .. tho marx is necessarily vague re: what exactly his utopia entails, i think a scenario such as this could quite effectively rid a lot of the alienation mentioned in marx. - mmhh.. i've got a feeling i've missed something' |
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jonesy: fair enough. But I think moral stems from God and I don't want to subscribe to his/hers/its views. I don't follow. Nobody, nothing. Not even nihilism. I am nothing in that respect. But i don't believe in nothing. |
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re: nihilism .. is this only rejection of ABSOLUTE morals - or morals fullstop? - just want to get this definition thing down. |
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Morals don't stem from God or a belief in god. What do you believe in? |
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meho: "not even nihilism" - hehe .. to avoid the self referential inconsistency that inevitably arises !!! - bit of godel speak there :) mmhh.. hope that marx thing made sense .. but i mentioned it to a politics student - and he never heard this take on it - because according to this .. it sort of rejuvinates marxism - because in a sense we are not ready yet for the dialectic jump to communism .. |
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I got confused. How are we "not ready for communism"? |
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oh .. um.. like, not ready for the second [?] stage of marxian communism.. according to my little theory thing (despite sounding awfully elementary) ... um technology isn't up to what it needs to be for it to sustain communism. ie .. my interpretation of marx's communism is a little different i guess, in the sense that no one works - ie. proletariat sense of the word work! so, technology eventually, i think, is likely to relieve people from such mundane activities as picking vegetables/factory work ... etc. etc. oh .. yeah .. and at that stage money will become redundant - mmmhhh i guess i'm more a neo-marxian than a true marxian hehe .. |
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Communism, as most on the left take it, is about a society where what we produce is planned and distributed according to human need. Its got nothing to do with a society where machines do everything, which i think is what your driving at. |
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