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 Now online (3)recycle belb big ...and 91 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Jesus, is that ever an invitation for the cops to use stupidity to their advantage. "I CAN'T OPEN THIS FILE TEMP.SWF IN MICORSOFT WORDS GIVE ME THE SECRET KEY" "But, that's a Flash file. See, it opens with..." "IF YOU DONT GIVE ME THE KEY YOUR MAKIN TERR GIVE ME THE KEY" |
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'Bout time. They should come down much harder than animal rights criminals ("activists" don't break the law) in the UK. They're a bunch of reprehensible cretins, who endanger us all with their frequently illegal antics, never mind the damage they do to our economy and the amount they contribute to our country's "brain drain". I know RIPA fairly well. They may well sling her in the brig for a few weeks, ask her if she suddely "remembers" her keys, then if not, sling her back in for a bit. Lather, rinse, repeat for 6 months, after which time, she'll have a fair case that she genuinely doesn't know the keys and they will probably release her. Of course, if they're feeling malicious/genuinely believe she has something juicy in there, they could make her wait for up to 2 years (and quite right too). Moral of the story? Don't fanny around with high strength crypto if you don't intend on using it/understand it. It's classed as arms under export laws for a reason. |
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"which was stolen by police thugs in May this year" Oooh, best watch what you say love; that's libel. And posting "anonymously" won't help you, you've already claimed you don't understand digital forensics... |
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I sense you have a history with this person lol. |
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Nah, just pissed of by the way animal rights activists in the UK are often represented in the press as moral crusaders, when they are a lunatic minority who commit illegal acts against organisations who operate completely legally and, in the view of the majority, ethically. I for one would be pleased to see the police serve her with the notice (as the chap in the article says, the CPS can't so she hasn't technically been served). RIPA wasn't just devised to prosecute terrorists (this isn't the same as the yanks' retarded reclassification of nearly everything as terrorism to up prison sentence lengths), it was designed to catch drug dealers, paedophiles and all sorts of criminals. As it happens, terrorists operating at a cell level tend not to use encryption much as it's a bit of a red flag that draws attention to them. Many animal rights activists here are involved in all sorts of nastiness like despoiling people's graves and violence towards people, even when these people are only very tenuously linked to the experimenters themselves. They also "free" animals, many of who are infected with diseases. The start of 28 days later isn't far from the truth. |
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you think 6 months to 2 years in clink is acceptable, just on suspicion? she denies even having anything encryted on there - does presumption of innocence go out the window as soon as you see somebody described as an animal rights activist? i've met a couple of militant types over the years and they are a bit mental, but you've just seen "huntingdon life sciences" and branded her as a criminal knowing precisely zero about her, never mind the actual case in question. don't take this the wrong way mate but sometimes it worries me you're involved in anything legal full stop, you're a nice chap but you've got some fucking partridge-esque ideas |
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The problem is the authorities can claim that any image file is steganographically encrypted - claim that noise in a large bmp file corresponds to a Truecrypt volume, for example. Can you afford a lawyer and experts to prove otherwise? If you can, oh well, honest mistake on the part of the police, just doing our job, no harm done. Sorry about the 6 to 12 month nightmare, tra la la. In any case animal rights activists are retarded dirtbags who should be made into pet food if they love animals so much. Surely people that dumb who go out and sabotage shit are leaving plenty of evidence for good old fashioned police work. |
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With respect, I'm so opinionated about computer law, because it's my specialist subject and I know a lot about it. I'm writing a paper for publication on it at the moment. Fleetmouse; under UK law, the obligation would be for the prosecution to prove she had crypto/stego on there. In the case of stego, even if she had Snow/whatever installed, there'd be no way of proving she had actually used it, unless there was a forensics trail in temp files etc. conclusively showing it had been used to insert data into a particular file. Again, if she had any legit reason for messing about with it she has little to worry about (for example, I would always be able to claim it was for my research, which it probably would be). I think the problem is, a lot of people dabble with crypto and that sort of thing, without having any real need for it. As it happens, I'm using a machine with 256-bit AES disk-level encryption, which the US Government considers adequate for Top Secret to type this. To all intents and purposes, it's unbreakeable, unless I hand over the password. Like when I'm handling a gun, I accept the responsibility that comes with this and make damned sure I know the key and that there is a method for unlocking it kept with a trusted 3rd part (should I genuinely forget). Unfortunately, nearly as good crypto systems are freely available and every tom dick and harry plays round with them. Perhaps education on the seriousness of its use is what's necessary? I know it's not a very pleasent thought, but crypto and stego are used an awful lot by paedophiles and trust me, having seen it from both sides (I nearly wound up working for a defence forensics company) the prosecution have a much harder time of it than the defence. Consequently, the chance of an innocent person going down solely on the basis of digital evidence these days is much less than that of a normal crime and it's a more than acceptable level of burden of proof in my eyes. |
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Good example with the noise in the image file btw; I'd actually been thinking of that myself when I stored a big image file of noise to use with a noise->sound program (that any jury listening to it could think "why would he want to make that sound?! It must really be for encrypting something naughty!"). I'm interested in the fact that there are lots of ways to utilise crypto and stego for nefarious purposes that could never be proven adequately in court. I'm also interested in the way that if someone is using stego properly, you won't know (and this may well be why we don't have any evidence of terrorists using it- the stories about them using porn sites to disseminate stego'd info are just that, hypothetical stories; no proven cases). The current system is certainly flawed and I'm not 100% in favour of it, but it is preferable to the only 2 alternatives I can see: 1. Encryption is a free for all. Anyone can use any strength encryption they like on anything. Police have no powers to force the divulgence of keys from suspects. An encrypted PC is essentially an unlockable box as far as evidence goes. Paedophiles the world-over rejoice. 2. All encryption use is heavily controlled and licenced. The government issues (and holds copies of) all keys and the penalty for using unlicenced crypto is severe. There is little to no danger of someone using it "accidentally" or unwittingly, but at the same time, encryption is effectively no longer available to the general public. Sadly, option 2 is the most likely alternative to the current system and occassionally crops up as "the answer" in discussions on the matter. |
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any jailed animal activist is a good one. kill them all, don't even eat them, just burn all animals alive. i don't even hate animals, i just hate activists. sorry, animals, i like you and all, but those activists are big enough cunts to warrant anything. |
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alternatively, have trained killer animals kill all animal activists. that would be even better. |
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actually, EVEN better, drop all animal activists in a lion's den. then let them kill them without human influence. |
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Teh Ironyz!!!!1! |
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i know you've got a lot of knowledge in computer security law etc - that's not the point i was making. i'm talking about you labelling somebody as a criminal without knowing any of the actual case details. all of this is completely up in the air, you’re jumping to a conclusion based on the fact that she’s described as an animal rights activist. i don’t especially want to get into hypotheticals but if this was, say, a rape case, involving what was judged to be an encrypted video of the rape, would you judge the person accused to be automatically a criminal if they refused to give up the password? i imagine the law would consider them to be under RIPA (don’t know for sure, not my background as i'm sure you realize) but whether that’s morally justifiable… i sense this all comes back to “if you’ve got nothing to hide”… sorry if i came across as cuntish earlier but this stuff tends to rile me |
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I guessing you have a lot of annoying activists in the UK. I think animal activism is really great. There is extremely awful things being done to the living that for the most important part, keeps us from developing as a species. We have advanced so far by suppressing our other primal voodoo's , why is it such a ridiculous concept to consider torture of another species ? BUT I do know there are PLENTY of idiots that ruin everyones fun and wear there causes on their sleeves. Half the time they will be protesting about animal testing but they can't live with out their Herbal Essence and Crest Sensitive toothpastes. Please, disregard the annoying activists individually as assholes , there are a lot whom have a different agenda then to throw red paint and scream at you. If we lack the discipline to display compassion for a weaker species , how will we ever be able to domesticate ourselves with other forms of intelligent life if it ever happened ? And to be so ignorant to promote domination of the weak is carte blanche for someone stronger then you to beat you up and fuck your girlfriend. |
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a very good post. also, please note: Alongside a S49 notice, the authorities can also issue a Section 54 notice that prevents a person revealing that they are subject to this part of RIPA. encryption is a pet hobby of mine. i have very, very strong views on it and on personal electronic privacy.. Ceri, as belb said (in a much friendlier manner), you're a really nice bloke, and i got along well with you that time i met you, but by god, if you said any of the shit that you've come out with in this thread at the weekend of wonderment, i'm certain it would have come to blows (and you would have certainly come out on top, you stocky fucker, but by jesus you'd have taken a few scars home with you) |
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Maybe we can take $10,000 out of that $X billion dollar kill other races of people in another country fund and pay a security analysis to decrypt it the code? Or is this just a crutch to inch closer to that NO PRIVACY FOR ANYONE goal. |
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it's against , Ceri.. this should be an interesting topic for years to come.. |
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It's like Mark vs Jeremy in Peep show. |
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I think the RIPA is nonsense. I'm going to deliberately generate an encrypted file... /dev/random > bombplot.txt The file is just full of pseudo-randomness, but could be an encrypted plot. If inspector Knacker of the yard asks for the key to it, I can legitmately say it is just randomness, but I cannot prove it. This is the problem with the RIPA. The police lost any goodwill I had (IT wise) when they shut down oink in the manner they did. I don't care that they did it. I do care about inviting the BBC film crew and lies and propaganda, which they claimed. The government lost any goodwill a long time ago. When I can trust them sufficiently I will tell them my keys. My argument would be that if they can lose half the country's ID info, why should I trust them with my encrypted data? oxygenfad: I don't think you would say "I think animal activism is really great." If you knew what they got upto over here. |
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You guys should have the Norwegian Data Inspectorate. They'd sort this mess right out. |
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