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I'm sorry that I can't provide a link or URl to this article. It is due to the fact that at work they seem to think that www.digitalhardcore.com is a porn site, and they've blocked it! Anyways on the Atari Teenage Riot news section, there is an article about ATR's album Future Of War.....it has been banned from index in Germany which means that it is ILLEAGAL to purchase that album in Germany Does anyone have an opinion on this? Personally I think it's yet another example of oppression of freedom of speech. |
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I am AGAINST ANY RULE that would not allow someone to buy an Atari Teenage Riot album...man how shitty. |
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yeah i know man, i mean regardless of if you love the music or not, it is majorly fucked up because it won't just stop there will it? I mean they already control what we watch, read and listen to to a certain extent (by they i mean governments) |
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Yeah it seems to have the possibility of SNOWBALLING into bigger problems with other artists in the future....ANY kind of censorship of music, or any art for that matter, really disgusts me. |
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it totally fucks me off too, i mean who the fuck are they to say what we listen to or read or watch it's like the burning of the books back in the WW |
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Time to pick up my tinfoil hat! |
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and it makes it worse...I LOVE ATR |
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lol i mean, looking at it, the German government are kind of turning ATR into martyrs, in the sense that oppression and facism and shit like that is what they're against.....if the government carries on, it'll only reinforce the ethos behind ATR if you get what i'm rambling on about! |
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ATR are brilliant i mean, there's no dnager for those of us outside Germany, but you can garuntee that at some point, other countries may possibly begin to put artists work on the index |
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yeah, it's true, except that it's not really banned here... the situation is like this: if an album is considered as very offensive whatsoever, it get's on the "index", the verb would: the album is "indiziert". "Indiziert" means that it's now forbidden to sell the album at public stores, it's forbidden to advertise the record and it's forbidden to ship the record. And of course it's forbidden to leave the record to minors. If I want to purchase the album, I need to ask for the record and the stores check if the have it under the desk. I guess there are just four albums or so banned in Germany. For example, Germany has over 4000 indexed video releases (i.e. Terminator 1, Blade, etc.) and about 200 banned video releases. (Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Dawn Of The Dead, etc.) So, it's not really banned, but rather "restricted" literally. |
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ahhh i see thanks for clearing that up :) but it's still fucked up though, isn't it? i mean, if it's forbidden to sell, advertise, or ship the record, surely that's the same consequences that would be involved if it were banned? |
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So, how is it not banned? it's illegal to sell, advertise, and ship these records |
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which german parties voted to pass this law? |
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i thnink what sine707 was clarifying is that there is a difference between being BANNED and FORBIDDEN banned would mean it's illeagal to own a copy of the record forbidden must be that it's illeagal to sell advertise or ship the record but in my view, if it's "indexed", that's the same as being banned, because it basically means that no-one in germany can get hold of it, because it can't even be imported, because it's forbidden to be shipped |
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oscillik: sure, it's still fucked up. You can't really sell the amount of records as you would like to. Kcytrx: Nope, you can purchase the album, you just need to bring your ID and you need to know that this record is available at the store. Like I said, you need to ask for it. If the album was banned, it wouldn't be possible to purchase the album at all! |
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i don't know, could be their censorship thing like the BBFC here in england (that is the one isn't it?) or it could be straight from the top, the government or whatever |
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but if it's illeagal to sell the record, if you go in and specifically ask for it, aren't the shop owners breaking the law then? *confused* |
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I don't get it, how can you purchase the album when it's illegal to ship it? BTW, isnt this against the constitution? |
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You need ID? I bet they log all the "weirdos" who buy indexed goods in some big government database! |
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I'm gonna fly an airplane in the brandenburger torn! |
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Well it's not just Germany, the UK has banned plenty of films over the years (The Exorcist being the most high-profile). If you look around on the IMDB you can find that a weird choice of films have been banned in different countries. As for music... it's happened a few times there too... Ice T, NWA, RATM etc have all had their music or message censored in the past. Personally, I think ATR should be banned all over the place, but that's just my musical preference ;) |
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that's what i'm trying to say, if it's illegal to sell, advertise or ship, how can the record shops get hold of the album in the first place, and sell it? it's illegal i don't know about the consitution, but yeah i reckon it'd be against it |
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no, not really! :) it's quite a complex thing. let's say you bought the record when it was still "available", after being indexed, you're still allowed to own it. But you're not allowed to sell it on eBay for instance. You can sell it to a friend or a store if you made sure before, that the person you sell this album/video is an adult. if you bought a record before it got banned, you're still allowed to own it (except for child pornography, sodomy, nazi material) but you're not allowed to sell it to anyone anymore. |
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really? i honestly didn't know that well, that's majorly fucked up too what the fuck do they all think they are, choosing what we listen to watch and read? next it'll be what we wear, eat, drink.....who know's? it'll be what we think next |
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so, if an album is indexed you can still buy the record from a retailer as long as you are an adult? |
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it's legal for commercial sellers to order the album from the record company, they just need to agree, that they won't sell it in public, but just on demand. the restriction for shipping is just for private fellas like you and me. one more thing: lots of people purchase their "indexed" stuff in video stores with so-called "over 18" areas. they are allowed to sell it there, since no minor is allowed in there. practically it would be legal to sell the ATR album there. just for clarification: if an album or video is banned, it's not allowed to sell it anywhere! yeah, we have something similar like the BBFC, it's called FSK in Germany. But it's just for movies. When a movie is about to get into theaters, it needs an FSK certification. When a movie is classified "FSK 18", then there's a chance that it'll get "indexed". But a movie only gets indexed when a constitution or a normal dude complains about it. Some lawyers and judges then decide wheather it should be indexed or not. So, indexing and FSK are two different things. |
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yes, correct. if they have it. You can also ask the retailer if he could order it for you, that wouldn't be private shipping. Yes, censorship is pretty major weak in Germany. |
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right, thanks for clearing that up :) i understand it now so, the shops can sell it so long as 1)they don't advertise 2)they only sell if someone walks in and specifically asks for ATR i still think it's messed up though! lol but at least i'm more clear on the subject, thanks loads sine707 |
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no problem mate :) |
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nah, they just take a brief glance at your birthdate :) |
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Conspiracy Theory was on TV the other day, and I dunno if you've seen it, but they traced the main character by watching the book stores tills remotely (the guy had a thing for buying The Catcher In The Rye) |
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that IS freaky |
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yeah, i think so. mel gibson as a paranoid and julia roberts as a lawyer? yeah, it was freaky :) |
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I got arrested for wearing a T-Shirt once. The pig cunt who had me said it wasn't illegal to make it, stock it, sell it or buy it but it was illegal to wear it. He recommended I burn it. I wore it the next day, saw the same pig and got arrested once more. Still, bought another one anyway ;) |
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Swansea, so you're in the UK? that is FUCKED UP! what t-shirt? i wanna buy one and see if I can get arrested for wearing it! ;) |
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Check http://www.digitalhardcore.com/News_Item.asp?News_ID=76 |
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germans always have their problems. i was at a quake 2 tourney last year, and the police fell in, locking up the place telling quake 2 isn't allowed under 18 years, and the youngest player was 12. we had to change to quake 3 because it hadn't restrictions yet... |
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