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I've got a 56k, so I can't download entire albums, even if I cared to. I feel like I've kind of slept through this whole file sharing thing. I mean, I'll download a track here and there, but I am so used to buying the real thing, I just don't feel like messing with all that. Support and album art is good. |
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"over 100 cd's wouldn't have been sold without napster." yeah well... fair enough :-) Like i said in my previous post (before the last one)... nobody (i imagine not even the industry!) has a problem with people using filesharing to discover new music. What they (and i) don't like is people who like yourself discovered a 100 cd's worth of music... but then decided to just download the songs and burn themselves a 100 cd-r's... that's just lame! |
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"I feel worse about paying $17.99 for a CD that cost 50 cents to manufacture and something like $2.00 goes to the artist." Yeah... and ofcourse recording-studio's are all run by such music-lovers that they allow the artists to use their equipment for free. Also the pressingplants that make the inlays and artwork cost absolutely nothing. And promoting a cd (advertising on tv, in magazines, making videoclips) also doesn't need to be paid for... :-/ Wake up and smell the coffee... You all make it sound like people who work at recordcompanies do nothing more than sit at desks and smoke cigars. |
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Word. |
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"I think if an artist can find a large enough audience he ought to be able to find a way to extract money from them in return for listening pleasure." And don't you think that's how recordcompanies started in the first place? Some artist probably knew "somebody" who helped them set up things. And after that went succesful "somebody" thought he might also help other artists get their music heard. When things got too succesfull he hired more people to do all the work... et voila... the world's first recordcompany ;-) "I think the answer lies in making music files available that are so easy to obtain and so high quality that it's actually cheaper and easier to give the artist a few bucks for them through paypal rather than hunting around on Kazaa or whatnot for incomplete, shitty sounding files." Well... if that's your dream (personally i really really really really like the fysical format of an entire album (not just loose tracks, but a carefully composed album) with proper artwork etc. I also think music-stores are the most fun places on earth... i wouldn't want to miss them)... but okay... if that is your dream you can wait for that. But why not keep buying music while you wait? :-) I would have some sort of respect for your views if it were purely idealistic... but i can't help but feel that basically you just don't feel like paying for your music. If you're searching for other ways of getting music from the artist to the audience then that's fine with me. Go for it! Write letters, set up something yourself, fight for it! But you can't just sit behind your computer, steal music from the internet, and write on some swedish messageboard about how you wish things would be ;-) I'm sorry if that sounded a bit harsh... nothing personal :-) But that's just the way i see it. Also... what happened to the ellen feiss-avatar? I miss her :-p |
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i'm a lot like you actually. Even though i have broadband-internet now... the thought of downloading doesn't appeal to me (infact i don't even have soulseek installed). Every now and then i listen to some music online (warp offers almost their entire backcatalogue to listen to for free on the site! Quite amazing)... but it just doesn't give me the same feeling as going to a store and buying a cd. I treasure my cd's... i don't care much for the stuff i listen to online. It's nice... but just to hear what something sounds like. |
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They have a choice in life these artists. We owe them nothing, sure I enjoy their music and I pay for it. But like Fleetmouse said they're is only so much money from the consumers pocket to go around to pay for records by the likes of Aphex, Squarepusher etc. Plaid use to work while they were doing their music, they only stopped with the success of 'Spanners' (thats the reality). All this ball about artists doing things directly with the consumers, yeah thats all fine and dandy but at the end of the day they'll never really get a huge audience. MTV and daytime Radio 1 are the channels except it. And besides its the old adage if people can get something for free then they don't give a shit. Anyway most of the people on the board are more conscious of the fact that artists struggle because they have their own fantasies about doing they're music and get paid for it or whatever. What you lot are taking out of the equation is all the selling and pushing that goes on behind the scenes (from pr/distributors/labels/artists/retail/etc etc) which are supposed leaches and should just do it for free. So sure as hell it ain't as straight forward as writing a few tracks and then suddenly everyone goes and buys them, there's a bit more to it than that. If you don't take some business approach or have some agenda or plan towards your music then you might as well forget it. People just never learn they seem to bang out the same old arguments again and again year after year like the world owes them a living. Christ its boring. |
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Dude, I buy CDs. I buy lots more CDs than I did before filesharing. Like, ten times more. Didn't you read that post? What I want to see is a 5 dollar download of CD quality files, with high res artwork and liner notes. This is cheaper than the time and effort you'd spend screwing around with filesharing apps, looking for a guy with decent files, hoping they're complete, hoping he doesn't cut you off... that's if you can find them at all! The only way artists can outcompete piracy is by being more efficient than the pirates! And one more time: I BUY CDS!!! I would gladly pay to download music if it were in a CD quality format. If I find something good I find a way to compensate the artist (right now that means buying the physical CD, which I think is oldfashioned). If it sucks, I delete the files. Dude, attachment to physical music formats is so 20th century. I'm sorry, but the world has changed. Record companies are trying to sell horses in the jet age. I may switch back to Ellen Feiss if Spikee Dragon keeps getting dragon spittle all over my nice pink and white bunny ears. |
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"They have a choice in life these artists. We owe them nothing" What kind of attitude is that? :-p You pay for your clothes, you pay for your house, you pay for food... hell... you even pay for your dentist to torture you once every 6 months! But then when it comes to art... (something that for me has enriched my life in more ways than any of the things mentioned above... i love it! The music that i listen to has changed my life, and i am very thankful to the artist for making it. The same thing goes for beautiful movies, books and paintings)... then you say: "pfff, it's their choice to make music, why should i feel responsible?" It's a very egoistical (sp?) view on the world imo. It is true that in the business-sense music is worth nothing... but on another level it's one of the most valuable things in your life (probably especially for people like us (the boardmembers) who all seem very passionate about it). |
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it makes me ashamed to admit i have found almost all of my favourite artist trough warez circles. i am young, i have no credit card and i live in periferia, so you can't really expect me to find ANYTHING at record shops. i do buy, always when it is possible but unfortunately shipping etc costs so much music comes very expensive to me. so i seldom order anything i'm not definate of being good (does that sentencd make sense). if i'd meet richard or the fsol guys i'd say i'm so sorry guys, that i have pirated your music, but it is just so good and i had no chance to buy it. i know i don't necessarily deserve the music, being poor and geographically misplaced. but i bet they'd forgive me for at least being able to listen. or should i just stick to the chart music to be able to buy? :o |
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why should you feel ashamed???? if filesharing disappeared those were the first ones who would cry for it. |
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well, because picary is wrong you know. i just have very bad consience of all this. |
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"And one more time: I BUY CDS!!!" okay okay! :-p Then i guess my post wasn't aimed directly at you... you seem to be on the "good" side of the downloaders ;-) (and yeah, i read this thread in the afternoon, and now again in the evening... i had forgotten about your earlier post when i started replying). But i'm sure there are people reading this board to whom my post is aimed... they know who they are i'm sure ;-) "Dude, attachment to physical music formats is so 20th century. I'm sorry, but the world has changed. Recordcompanies are trying to sell horses in the jet age." lol! hm... yeah... well i fear you may be right there in a way :-( I don't think fysical cd's are passé just yet... but they probably will be some time in the future. Even today you've still got people who think everything was better in the days that vinyl was the standard. I imagine i will turn out alot like them ;-) Telling people everything was better in the days when cd's were the standard :-p I still hope you're wrong though ;-) CD's forever! Jay! |
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did any of you actually READ the link i posted? shadow isn't protesting mp3 downloading, but people who download albums and don't buy them. as mickey would put it: "christ on a cracker" you guys! he's not thumbing his nose at anyone who can't afford $20 an album (see his comment on shady major label record execs) or people who use mp3's as previews. also, the reason some of you have such a hard time finding good music in stores is cos the piracy of those of you who burn albums instead of buying them gives the wrong message to the aforementioned shady execs. the 1/2 of the people who listen to the album that haven't bought it AREN'T accounted for with the label. fuck artist profits, we're talking about distribution and label politicking. without sales labels have no reason to pay for the recording of an artist's next album, much less release the muthafucka (especially to a wide audience like around the world to finland or australia). it's a vicious cycle but until music isn't controlled by a profit-oriented industry, we have to play the game (assuming you want new music to be released). i mean it's because of people like a lot of you that some of my favorite artists (pharoahe monch, coil, black thought of the roots, mos def, del, rza, dj krush, esthero, j-live, telefon tel aviv) have fucking unreleased albums. also, in the link y'all ignored, he once again stated how happy he was that he didn't release a "sequel" to endtroducing (i don't think anyone would contest that) and that from now on people will have a bulk of work to compare new albums to, not just endtroducing. he also thinks this is an album that'll stand on its own years from now, like endtroducing and psyence fiction. |
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that sucks neetta :-( I don't really know what to say to that... i'm almost leaning towards "it's okay for you to download" ;-) I mean if you have no other way of getting ahold of the music. It's a little bit Warp's own fault then :-o For not having better distribution. I don't have alot of experience with ordering cd's yet... so i'm not very aware of how high the shipping-costs are. Can't your local record-store order aphex twin either? That's the only semi-good advice i can think of to give you :-) |
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no, i admit i did not read it.but this issue bugs me ALOT. i feel so bad for not being able to support :( |
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surrounded, I think you're way too idealistic. You don't seem to get it that its their choice to do what they want to do. Ofcourse I appreciate what they do and that is why I pay £10 for their CDs and post on boards like this etc. But apart from that I mean what the hell do you want me to do? Do you want me to do cartwheels or something and say er I'm really really grateful you guys have enriched my life. If these artists struggle to make a living I don't give a shit its their choice its that simple. So please get a life. |
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"You don't seem to get it that its their choice to do what they want to do" So would you rather see they did not do what they do? Be fair... indeed it's their own choice to do what they do. But if you like what they do... you should say: "hey man, i like what you do! Keep at it!" And so you support them. "why I pay £10 for their CDs" well that's all i'm asking really :-p I have to go now... i'll check with this thread later. |
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like there would even be a local record store here :D in helsinki they probably can but costs alot and they rarely order 'rare' stuff like warp etc. |
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i actually didn't read the article at the link (for some reason my computer always fucks up whenever i try to install shockwave... i just gave up, 90% of the sites use flash anyway). I figured i would understand what it was about as i read this thread ;-) "shadow isn't protesting mp3 downloading, but people who download albums and don't buy them." Well that's my point of view exactly. I don't hate mp3's or filesharing. If everyone used it wisely, filesharing would be a GREAT way of learning about new music. However, many people aren't able to handle the responsibility, and download without buying anyway. That's like borrowing books from the library. And then deciding you like the books so much you're gonna keep them. It's just wrong. Morally wrong and also illegal. "he's not thumbing his nose at anyone who can't afford $20 an album" ehr... doesn't that kinda contradict what he said about people who download albums and don't buy them? My momma always said if you can't afford something, work for it! |
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"like there would even be a local record store here :D" lol, that bad huh? And how far is it to helsinki? I actually can't buy alot of cd's that fit my taste in my hometown either... But in my case the next big city is only 15 minutes by train away :-) |
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Tits, I did read the article. But you didn't read between the lines. Let me break it down for you my sweet buttercup: from now on, anything that can be reduced to ones and zeroes will be passed around like a prison bitch. The artist has to become the most efficient distributor of prison bitches, instead of whining like a bitch. Maybe we should get those fine men who beat on Moby to pay Shadow a visit and really give him something to whine about. |
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If if it's good I buy it, and if it's not I don't. I download music this way I dont get ripped off on buying a shitty cd. I'll burn a cd when I only like one or two songs off the cd..... |
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tits, another great thread, thanks for the shadow link, good read. I do agree with what he said and I do have to say that i wouldnt have 75% of my collection had it not been for downloading mp3s. i have over 200 cds (all genuine), mp3s are just samples for me. I dont even burn cds for just a few songs, i dont buy albums with only a "few" good songs, its not worth it unless the whole album or most of it is good. |
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i always thought musicians that are most affected because of downloading are the pop musicians-and the reason for that is because they dont make quality music-music that lasts/i mean they release an album and its out of trend in six months, so why buying it? from what i can see on this mb, people are mostly buying quality albums i got this impression that lots of people here buy older releases if they get into certain artist i could be wrong tho :) |
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"i got this impression that lots of people here buy older releases if they get into certain artist i could be wrong tho :)? sounds the same way to me, time doesnt affect truly good music (i suppose thats subjective but anyways)unlike say britney spears etc. i mean i buy older coil albums, nww and einsturzende neubauten still so yeah, id agree with you impression there. |
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I also have a 56k so its only good for downloading a few tracks and not full album. the only full albums I have downloaded are like out of print or stuff that never got released. |
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i had a fast connection for a long time now, and i hardly downloaded any music i mostly use it to check the music and if i like it i buy it (which happens a lot hehe) |
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so you'd rather have the truly creative--who have to fight off not only the anti-art slant to the music INDUSTRY but also their technically savvy and not necessarily issue-educated fans--spend less time making and performing their music and more time promoting it? sounds a little unreasonable to me. |
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tolstoyed: the point shadow is making is that there are fans out there who really appreciate an album/artist but STILL won't fork over the cash to buy the album. instead they burn it or keep it on their computer. that's all he's talking about--not previewing before buying or people downloading and not liking it. most of the cd's i own (which is in the hundreds) is cos i either downloaded single mp3's or whole albums. i think anyone w/ a brain would not say mp3 downloading has no purpose. but there really IS a large percentage of people who download and then don't purchase albums they like. i think if everyone here was honest about that we'd prolly get about half of us who admit to loving albums and then not buying them afterwards. not all the time, but sometimes. i did it when i was 16 before i really knew what it was like to be a less famous/rich artist. once i understood i stopped doing cd-r's. |
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I fnever downloaded mp3's I wouldn't own a lot of the cd's I do. That And I use mp3's to backup my cd's in case someone steals them. Yes I do share them on p2p programs, but only because I hope someone else can appreciate the music the way I do and buy it. |
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I'm not a socialist loony. Are you aware that the music and film industry is run by massive conglomerates like Time Warner? How do you think these people make their vast profits? Take a look around. As for that old chestnut about not putting a gun to their heads; by that rational any choice you make in life is your own unless someone is threatening you with physical violence. People make choices based on a number of different factors and pressures. The world works in more subtle ways than your brain can cope with I'm afraid. |
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