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offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 00:40 [#02624794]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

i realized soundcloud does not actually solve any problems
for me. it dangles the potential of connections and
networking and then laughs as it sells all your data
[probably your tunes too (sooner than later {if not
already})]. i swear they encourage the bots -- likely
because they're in too deep; using the bots as part of the
"engagement" numbers the report to potential investors like
elon musk or whatnot

eventually, eventually, i realized: there is absolutely
nothing stopping me from doing this with bandcamp.:
uploading tracks to that bandcamp album.
culling them (but making them "bonus tracks" so they're
still there really).

i'm also thinking i'll keep the price low while it's pinging
around for months and then raise it once it's an album and
i'm shedding my skin and moving on to another blank purple
cover to fill in. start a new album track pool

this seems a relatively reasonable way to, like, flatten
what was some
pointless multi-level effort: soundcloud to just post stuff,
bandcamp to sell stuff, then perhaps on twitter or something
lord help me, and i'd theoretically be on here saying
"please retweet my soundcloud announcement about my bandcamp

and instead here's me uploading tracks just like soundcloud,
except you can buy them, then i cull them down into an album
when it feels like an album, or time, or whatever, and you
get all the less-ridiculous ones for free. at a price if you
bought early. given that i've had to move around so much i
did take a moment to think of bandcamp's end, the spirit of
the setup, etc. and this also seems entirely fair in that



offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 02:14 [#02624795]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

It depends on what "problems" are you trying to solve?

Does bandcamp have metrics? Like with soundcloud (free
version), I can vaguely see that one person in Tel Aviv
listened to my track 6 times. Fucking awesome, one dude
found something worth listening to *6* times in that track.
I quite enjoy that. It's really all I need, personally.

But it sounds like you're trying to network and "make it" as
an artist. No platform will ever, ever do that for you, I
promise you that. That's extracurricular networking, meeting
the right people, etc. You (and I) are very likely just too
old for that now.

The trajectory you are on right now gets a few listens on
xltronic and a few listens from friends, and that's all it
will ever be unless you deep dick the network and hustle.

If you're going to respond to any one thing, let me know
about the bandcamp listener's metrics as opposed to
soundclouds, I'm interested in that.


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 02:30 [#02624796]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

Even here on xltronic you need to network.

If you want people to listen to your music, listen to
theirs. It's something I quite enjoy doing (like Big, I have
a xltronic tracks folder).

If you DON'T (and you, epicmegatrax, most of the time ignore
most other people's spam and just post about whatever
tangent has tripped you up for the day), no one even here
checks out your stuff.


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 02:32 [#02624797]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

The ideal platform for me (it doesn't exist, one of you
should make it)

would be like "My music for yours."

You upload a track. You post a comment about SOMEONE ELSES
track. The "someone else" can't see your comment until they
listen to YOUR track and comment. Tit for tat.


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 02:57 [#02624798]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

wow you went down the soundclot rabbit hole right fast

But it sounds like you're trying to network and "make it"
as an artist.

no, see, this is exactly what i am fed up with. what does
"make it" even mean? i put some legitimate effort into it a
few years ago and that was exhausting because, go figure,
writing music is where i go when i'm fed up with coding and
career and playing chess with the insurance company. from
there, once you actually try... the hunter s. thompson

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money
trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run
free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 02:58 [#02624799]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

why are you so difficult? i'm hungry. i want a zigguraut.
i'm going to go smoke a zigguraut. please figure out what i
actually want.


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 03:05 [#02624800]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

whats the sound cloud rabbit hole?

re: making it. Well scratch that terminology. You're the one
talking about pricing like anyone is going to buy your stuff
without knowing who you are? That's what I meant.

If you want a ziggurat, you ensalve people and have them
construct it, like in Dwarf Fortress.

And finally, you didn't respond to my actual point blank
question about the metrics on bandcamp. Restated, can you
SEE that one dude has re-listened to a single track? That's
an advantage soundcloud has.

The funny thing is your selective responses to direct
queries, selective choosing of who and what you'll engage
with is probably the exact same as SPAM. It probably extends
to all aspects of your life.

You've probably pissed SO many people off by disregarding
that which you're not completely interested in. *I notice
that you do it,* and other's will too. It makes you less


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 03:06 [#02624801]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

Sometimes you have to respond to something *even if you dont
want to.* especially if you want that person to spend actual
currency on your music, lol


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 03:12 [#02624802]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker


1) [early 10's] a casual stab at "the grind" -- bleh
2) [10's-2020] whatever, i have a usable setup again and i'm
stoked i'll just upload stuff to soundclot for zilty and
linking people over teh SMS
3) [2020] soundclot has reached the stage where a tech
company is like, "sorry, guys, we need to squeeze a buck by
any means necessary because we sold our investors utterly
unrealistic projections
4) [early 2022] stuck it out on soundclot because zilty
people there, other people. i maintain an account, mind you,
i get the messages. there are a few spare tracks up. but i
thought: i have my own web hosting
5) [mid 2022] oh i have web hosting i can just post FLAC if
i freaking want
6) [end 2022] this is too annoying
7) oh, hey! it's WAY easier to just post tracks to bandcamp
as if it were soundcloud. it does the same exact thing -- i
think the bitrate might be better? and, wishing on a meagre
rat fart's chance in hell... someone can buy the WAV, if
they want.
8) oh, hmm. this is not what bandcamp is meant for?
9) so we arrive at

i don't have the time -- and it's a pisser, because i
totally still could -- to grind out entire albums in a mad
three-day spree. instead you get kind of like, journal
entries. if i have enough time in close enough clumps, the
journal entries coalesce into an album. otherwise,

so i think it makes sense to kind of post them as i do them,
journal style, whittle it down setting most as bonus, then,
mmm, that's about an album.

if you want some "hustle" i guess people can see the album
before it's an album, if they're actually watching. like
watching a tadpole become a princess-thieving koopa


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 03:15 [#02624803]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

i guess it just seemed interesting as a business model for
someone, really. i intend to noodle, chow mein, whatever
with it, myself. a little. however, the idea that i am
locked into some metaphor i don't know from the eminem movie
i haven't seen -- absurd


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 03:27 [#02624804]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

It's actually amazing to me that we're now 10 replies in and
you didn't reply to my direct question, stated TWICE in post
2, and again in post 7.

And completely ignored all points I made about the value of
exchange. Instead you opted to post some year by year life
history that NO ONE (including me) finished reading.

Why didn't I read it? Because you didn't bother to respond
to my question. It's so damn simple.

This applies directly to networking too. If you EXPECT
people to just flock to you, read your shit, listen to your
music, GIVE YOU MONEY, while you do fuck all? You're a
fucking idiot, or you have an insurmountable mental


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 03:30 [#02624805]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

the germ of it really came out of me being, like... i'm too
impatient to read bandcamp's rules, but i know how the place
is, and i cannot just use this as a messy file dump. there
has to be some arguable path to monetization, here. this is
after i already have a bunch of tracks up in "acid
repository" and some hidden... and then began tuning it up
into an album

i thought: hey, this is a reasonable pattern for me to
repeat. this is kind of what i need. and i started coming up
with all the cheeky psychological twerks like... well, it's
$7 ~for now~ because it's not finished yet, and i don't
expect you to pay full price for something that's not done.

similarly, when i was just bunging things on soundcloud
randomly, i wasn't really offering anything organized, and i
didn't bother to post anything to bandcamp at all.

worry about "promoting" it after, like... a reliable
pipleline going. just start a blog or something. or set up
an RSS feed to my recent posts

i actually thought of RDJ. saying things like, "i still have
holes in my catalogue," as in, "i still never tried that
corner of that idea i had back then." that he does reams of
tracks, then, fuck, boo, such a pisser to put them all in
albums and have this pressured big reveal

so just do a track in your bathrobe and post it to a
bandcramp album and then blog about it as you paywall the
b-sides with "bonus" and fix the mastering

i had never considered that assembling an album in public
could be easier and less tense than assembling an album in

at the end of the day, here is the problem bandcramp solves:
they give me: a) a place to post all my things b) a payment
platform that doesn't require a PhD c) peace and quiet i
don't get over at soundclot


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 03:31 [#02624806]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

This applies directly to networking too. If you EXPECT
people to just flock to you, read your shit, listen to your
music, GIVE YOU MONEY, while you do fuck all? You're a
fucking idiot, or you have an insurmountable mental

this is the longest definition of irony i've ever seen


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-02 03:31 [#02624807]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

you ignored the first thing i said and you're just repeating
the same things over and over again. i actually never had a
zigguraut. trying to qubit. but you've broken me


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 03:41 [#02624808]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

>>you ignored the first thing i said and you're just
the same things over and over again.

you responded to none of them.

AND, verifiably false. the first thing you said was: i
realized soundcloud does not actually solve any problems
for me.

thing first thing I said was: It depends on what "problems"
are you trying to solve?

You didn't answer the question because you are literally
incapable of answering a question. Literally. fucking.
incapable. I'm so sure you won't even answer it here.

I don't care about your stupid ziggurat.


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 04:36 [#02624809]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

Last thing:

When was the last time you, epicmegatrax, approached
ANYTHING not on your exact terms? This is a question, and
since you don't answer questions, I don't expect answer.

It relates directly to you selling your music. You won't
sell them on your terms. You won't get listens on your
terms. Without an exchange of value, you'll get exactly
nothing, not even listens here on xltronic.

The other day in umbro's thread I lobbed "slap hits king
solomon, how do you proceed?" at fleetmouse. That joke was
on my terms, though it was shitty DMing (shoulda said as a
good DM, slap hits king Solomon, he gets up and grabs you
directly by the balls, how do you proceed?"

Fleet answered that he rolled poorly and was turned into a
pillar of salt. He took a layup from someone else and scored
the point. This tit or tat is how anything works, and I'm
really not kidding- I've never seen you take the ball and do
anything with it.

You take the ball and run off and talk about your childhood
and ziggurats and ignore the game around you.


offline mermaidman on 2023-02-02 14:02 [#02624810]
Points: 7692 Status: Regular

this is a retarded thread. sorry to the retards i should
have used mentally challenged


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 17:27 [#02624811]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict | Followup to mermaidman: #02624810

NOT COOL, mermaidman.

In all seriousness tho, epic, nothing I said was about your
music. Your music is cool, I *genuinely like* much of it. It
HAS a monetary value. *Selling* your music is an outside
skill that no platform will help with.

How can you sell a track when you can't even communicate,
except on the most specific terms, exactly how you want to.
I don't think that's how communication works. If you fail to
answer even the most basic, earnestly asked question about
bandcamp metrics, because you're simply not interested in
the question, how can you really put anything cohesive
together as package or presentation?


offline Wolfslice from Bay Area, CA (United States) on 2023-02-02 17:28 [#02624812]
Points: 4296 Status: Addict

back to dwarf fortress


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 04:41 [#02624816]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

what baffles me is that i did answer your questions...
including, like: what problems does bandcamp solve for me?
what "problems" am i trying to solve?

in particular, the first time i'm actually replying to you,
i quote you directly, and say something that... well, none
of what you're saying makes any sense in that context.

bandcamp has some sort of metrics shit. it looks very glossy
and pretty. i never open it. happy?


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 04:42 [#02624817]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

wolfslice do you do meth


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 04:56 [#02624818]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

wolfslice has one or more of the attributes [trying to troll
me with a counter-deluge, on meth, works for soundcloud]


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 04:57 [#02624819]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

or maybe you just made it way deeper than i did, with...
well... i've put all this effort into soundclot... i have a
bunch of followers now... so i should just... keep... going

and you never see yourself going off the deep end; you just
melt down one day. about metrics


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 11:34 [#02624831]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

i mean, bandcramp has some of the same horseshit going on,
for sure. here's my "dashboard" with "metrics" and all


If you aren't exhibiting at least three signs of being in
a cult, you're not trying hard enough! We notify your
followers when you release new music or merch, so the more
you have, the more sales you can expect.

> Get some followers
> How do I start a cult?

that, yes, i know this is trying to be silly, that they do
not literally mean a cult. i don't find it funny. not
because of the cult reference, but because... they are
fucking half serious. they do literally mean a cult. or do

and i'm supposed to be this un-look-away-from-able attention
magnate (how do they work?) and start a personality cult and
build followers and LAZY_TITLE beep beep beep digits

does anyone stop and think how fucked up this is? that it's
so basic it's even summed up by a fight club quote ("we were
all told we were going to grow up to be movie stars, and
we're not" or someth) that i've searched on youtube for
things like "how do i iron the pockets on my techwear pants"
and there's this video of this hispanic chick in a sagging
youtube channel and she looks like she's on the verge of
tears, this youtube shit isn't working. shame of it is she
did teach me to iron pockets but i never log into youtube so
it's just a lone view

that i do think my stuff is good enough to pay a bit for, to
some people. that if enough people start looking around and
telling others, it could go somewhere. but the idea of going
around and sucking everyone's dick to get mutual "likes" or
starting some manipulative personality cult (and it's me, so
it'd bomb anyways) is like fucking no thanks

i'll just work a real job and treat this as a hobby thx


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 11:44 [#02624832]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker


sorry, "Sean Banned Roger" kind-of EP. the main two tracks
are now just acid repository bonus. "pclonky" the only one
that made it. also folded and deleted ASDFMR EP. are these
even EPs? it's so divorced from vinyl the fuck does that
even mean anymore

anyways, just growing the album fractally. trim off the tail
eventually. fix the mastering. do a more fancy cover.

it's like LAZY_TITLE

and in the end i was really just making this thread to be
like "hey i'm not sure albums really make sense any more in
the traditional way" and then "journal entries make more
sense" and furthermore "just upload it all to bandcramp
because it can stream same as soundclot and there are no
bots" finally "publicly whittle it down into a proper album
and delete nothing just make them bonus content" because
it's honest, it's sustainable, it's fair to bandcramp

but if i were trying to "make it" i suppose it'd probably
make more sense to spend months trying to make an album
intricately tailored to do well on tik-tok and build "hype"
before the "drop" i dunno

i do think about trying that sometimes, but usually i just
go do another track instead


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 12:54 [#02624833]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker


javascript off entirely for the site and it'll just dump the
full article out and not bother you about signup, trial,


offline Tony Danza from nuked west on 2023-02-03 14:29 [#02624836]
Points: 3195 Status: Lurker

use the archive today bookmarklet and you get


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 16:38 [#02624846]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker | Followup to Tony Danza: #02624836

oh, that's not bad. but it's always, in some ways, better
to... like, here is something you can just adjust in most
any web browser and no plugins required; no external site.

that i ran this thread through it, and, oh, that's cute, i
think i've spawned wget or curl or something on someone's linux

but who runs this anyways? obviously it stores whatever you
put in; that's your fault. but who's to say all the
shortlinks won't turn into malvertising some day? let's poke

there are no names. no about. but there is

Q: Will advertising appear on the archive one day

A: I cannot make a promise that it will not. With
the current growth rate I am able to keep the archive free
of ads. Well, I can promise it will have no ads at least
till the end of 2014.

the web page certainly looks at least ten years old.
probably is what it says on the in. no guarantee it'll stay
that way. most subtle, really, would be to function as
normal 95% of the time and 5% malware instead. i've used
this same trick myself, except with tubgirl instead of

then LAZY_TITLE it's also getting in over its head
trying to format things

so seems like a nice honest nerd weekend project. simpler
than asking people to figure out how to shut JS off. yeah
sure, probably will come back to this


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-03 16:41 [#02624847]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

UPDATE ~ because i know you all care so very much.

swapped two tracks around. swapped two others around.
deleted "conflictrest" EP-ish thing and made them all bonus
tracks (some good sounds but too much waiting about). i
think i've about cleared out all the bits i've made since i
got the behringer "303" and that was kind of my general
file-folder here


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-05 14:30 [#02624908]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

so, simpler: wolfslice, do you see me saying, like, "the
whole promo circle-jerk grind just made my soul sad and
everyone buying each others' bandcramp albums does nothing
but enrich bandcamp at the expense of everyone involved."

but instead i went into some timeline trying to say, like: i
tried that seriously for a bit, it made me miserable

before that, starting the thread: hi, this is kind of an odd
way to do things, but i think it makes sense for me and my
situation, and perhaps even in the context of the times,
what do you think? so of course i'm rambly; this is just
conceptual tinkering

meanwhile: still waiting for you to recognize the absurdity
of me going around and making everyone happy and being a
slick salesman that's well-liked with a knack for the market
and actually understands tik tok and

...oh, hell, maybe i'll go "the timelords / doctorin' the
tardis" at some point and take a genuine stab at something
viral. but just look what that mashup did to bill drummond


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-05 15:46 [#02624909]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

that money is tight now. driving me crazy, actually, which
is part of why, just... "it should be available for purchase
not because i am expecting a huge rush but because if anyone
wants it and it's not i'm just letting it go out the door."
so, tempered expectations, really. people buy this stuff
sometimes. if they actually like it, you know? and not just
for "networking"

...but, at some point, for a giggle, when money is less $*%(
i think i might actually hire some of those bot armies and
spamhands for a laugh. doubt it'll pan out. but seems like
amazon reviews where you can buy a few thousand soundcloud
plays off the bots and suddenly you look like hot shit and
people start piling on the bandwagon. model clearly works
for rap


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-05 15:54 [#02624910]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

additional thought: actually, i could write my own bots?

(and sell their services?)


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-05 16:03 [#02624911]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

that you'd want to leverage test automation software for the
browser emulation. chromedriver is shit for actual test
automation, but that's not the job here, and... it's free.
meanwhile, i hate cypress with a passion, and cypress
charges per run, fails randomly, charges you for that. no,
just a passable emulation of chrome with seemingly real user
tussles with their donkey dick of JS


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-05 16:30 [#02624912]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

(disclaimer: i addressed one (1) of these posts to wolfslice
rest is optional wolfers, calm down)

the biggest problem any botlord faces is... you find a way
to make it work, hey, it's working! but then as you scale it
up for $$ it becomes flamingly obvious and they take it
down. scale too much, you risk burning your setup. so then
the typical botlord's setup invests a significant amount of
resources in obfuscation... chaff, smoke-screens,
what-have-you. that then you have to spam people
additionally to advertise your bots, in order to get
paid, and... same cycle; you're exposing yourself

so i think it'd be much less of a deal to just quietly pump
up a few tracks to a few tens of thousand, just once, for
one account, which would presumably be as rancidly viral as
dr. whooo-ooo

(did you know? gary glitter just got out of jail)


offline EpicMegatrax from Greatest Hits on 2023-02-15 08:23 [#02625280]
Points: 21883 Status: Lurker

that it's fucking annoying. that i actually kind of
understand the path to understanding mastering. that i need
to actually fucking read the bob katz book more and use the
ear training CD and then just compulsively listen to my
tracks in different setups for ages in conjunction and
eventually i'll start to just feel it. but that's a lot of
work, and things like, fucking malfunctioning smoke
detectors, lost at least 500 hz a few months ago

and no one seems terribly enthusiastic. so i think this may
be where this album stays. up to $11 because that's
effectively the tracks, in the right order, with bonus, but
the mastering is very uneven and depending on my mood of the
day. but no one seems terribly enthusiastic so i think i
officially don't give a shit about mastering it and making
it to $12.

frankly too much going on now; haven't recorded anything at
all in a bit. maybe i should pack it in


offline steve mcqueen from caerdydd (United Kingdom) on 2023-02-18 23:55 [#02625346]
Points: 5911 Status: Addict

If you could stick this into 1 or 2 short paragraphs I would
be happy 2 engage


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