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 Now online (2)belb big ...and 66 guests Last 5 registered Oplandisks nothingstar N_loop yipe foxtrotromeo Browse members... |
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Heroes and Villians by The Beach Boys. This song has sent me on such a trip during the last two days. I would listen to Beach Boys constantly while playing with legos when I was six, but Heroes and Villains just profoundly bothered me for some reason, to the point where I would literally get up and run to my ghettoblaster if I was distracted and wasn't already in position to skip it before I was subjected to any of it. I was distracted and it came on, and I still would have reflexively skipped it on sheer muscle memory if I hadn't been. But I was, and eventually I tune back in, and: This is so. fucking. weird So I punch it into bad boy wiki p and I discover this was essentially the moment Brian Wilson cracked; that he had a much fancier version of this track more like good vibrations and everyone was furious that he binned it |
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So then wikipedia tells me that after this song commercially failed, it was devastating for Brian, and he promptly began to refer to the voices in his head as his Heroes and Villians, and that, if the topic came up, he would say, "I don't want to talk about it" and would promptly turn around and walk away from you. This struck me as utterly uncannily like lewis. His Angels and Demons, he doesn't want to talk about it, he turns around and walks away. So I realized, after 30 years, why that song bothered me so incredibly much: Even though I did not understand what I was feeling, I could feel Brian was really having trouble at that point, and it made me extremely uncomfortable to be there with him in the moment even though I would not even know his name for... yes, almost 30 years. |
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That then, also, at six years old, with utterly no way to process what I was feeling, I felt it. Then I promptly reacted like Brian Wilson and I would literally rush to the ghettoblaster to change the topic. |
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That I pulled all of this out of a song when I was six without understanding what I was feeling; impressive. I give the credit to Brian But then I got to studying the song, listening on loop, and things got a lot more interesting |
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Brian wrote in modular sections, at this stage. It's not like verse, chorus, you have... modules, modular music, I do think he even called it that. But if you listen to the arguable chorus of this song -- the second module that reveals itself -- the official lyrics are not entirely the lyrics. That I am just listening to this song properly for the first time, and what I hear is "Daaancing on fingers, Daaancing on tears" but then when I go to look up the lyrics they are actually, "Heroes and Villians, just see what you've done." Lewis would say exactly that about his Angels and Demons But this is really where it fucking melted me: I really had to listen hard to hear the official transcribed lyrics; that yes, ok, they really are in there. However, once you stack on all the vocal harmonies, it's like there are two sets of lyrics at once. The official lyrics are buried and hard to hear, but what you actually hear is tenuous and slips away like a dream when you try to fix on it. And this is exactly how auditory hallucinations feel to a schizophrenic. |
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Then I get into analyzing the song more deeply, I'm texting his mom and it's blowing his mind too, this is just uncanny, this whole song is about schizohprenia and yes please let's try not to take it literally, this is how close it matches; it could fool you into thinking it's about current events |
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Dancing on fingers, what have you done.... No idea what a doodle do... fucking hell. How. Did. He. Do. This |
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if syd barrett's "bike" was screaming schizophrenia from a rooftop, this is... more so busy accurately painting a portrait of the condition that it forgets to actually mention what its point is, and that's why it failed commercially. that, and it is so. weird |
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like i feel most people will somehow perceive there's something deep going on here but the song never makes it clear so they wind up a bit confused and frustrated and i shouldn't have to think this hard for pop |
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that i worry i'm pulling a BrianMegatrax here and this will make no sense. so i'll add more context. when i was around ten years younger i would occasionally stay awake coding for literally three days, and sometimes... i hear a radio playing in my computer closet, what? and i get closer and closer, this is bizarre, there can't be a radio playing in there... it's classical music... and... then i get close enough, and i realize i'd just been hallucinating it inside of a computer fan sound. that, it was precisely like how it feels when you are walking at dusk, and you see a pile of leaves out of the corner of your eye and you think it's a cat! but then you actually look and it's just a pile of leaves and snap your perception of reality makes a distinctly noticeable hard transition, like, "we saw it wrong, fixed now" and if you keep both sets of lyrics in your head (heroes and villians, see what you've done / dancing on fingers, dancing on tears) and you have at least a mild knack for meditation you will get at least a vague sense of what hearing voices is like. i'm curious on belb's take. i do hope i'm not wrong because i feel some momentum here |
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i've been thinking on this, and recommend the brian wilson much-delayed-solo-release of smile if you don't know it. compare and contrast with the smiley smile version, it's pretty interesting i had angels and demons / heroes and villains too but i knew them as kirstys and lewises (nothing to do with your lewis). the nature of voice hearing is like, you only hear parts of it and fill in the blanks with yr own insecurities. naturally there's a huge variety in the details, one person with schizophrenia will display symptoms another does not, and vice versa i think the good vs evil nature of the voices comes from social conditioning (how could it not?) but it really does often seem to the schizophrenic that they are they centre of a larger battle, good and evil. what is the evolutionary pressure for this? open to debate but i think we absorb a lot of black-and-white stories in a disneyfied childhood, goodies and baddies, cops and robbers etc. useful modes of thinking for those in power |
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feels a bit like its the sgt peppers version of a bb song. it does indeed sound like a circus band going weird in certain parts. dont know as much about the time though as to make a profound comment. the solo version sounds more sorted, tragic but sorted. |
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em as kirstys and lewises (nothing to do with your lewis). the nature of voice hearing is like, you only hear parts of it and fill in the blanks with yr own insecurities. yes yes yes exactly this. lewis talking about his angels and demons, then i finally, two days ago, read that brian wilson was just an utter dead ringer talking about his heroes and villains. then i went on to say i have literally heard voices myself, i have directly experienced this after staying awake for three days, but then i saw what was happening and put myself to bed and it never stuck. but sometimes i would actually stay awake for a bit longer simply because it found it supremely strange and fascinating it actually goes so very deep; i actually feel like i need to write it up properly. |
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i will drop a few key points in advance. let us start with the album cover for the single of heroes and villians ~ that, ok, this is a doodle. with a dude. do a dudel. dude-l doo. and i've been repeatedly listening to this song because there is gold in here and it finally happens, that i literally experience aphasia when i hear "you never know what a dude'll do in a town full of heroes and villains" as "you never hear what a doodle do" and then it melts down into the rest of the vocals before the spinner sound and the album cover really helped me, here, because i see the spinning wheel that says "beach boys" and i'm like: oh, yes, that's the spinner sound. that essentially, even though this is not typical verse/chorus, what is arguably a verse is a poetic description of the conditions and its implications. then the arguable chorus(es), brian just throws you into the pool with an attempt to communicate the subjective experience of hearing voices, and really, i feel like he succeeded to the point where i am in this thread, still trying to untangle how he did this. and i think i know at this point but it's quite a long answer |
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you never know what a doodle do he has me mixing my own words up. bastard has me |
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whenever you hear the wheel spinning he wants you to hear his heroes and villains next section. |
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then at the end, sunny down snuff i'm alright, clearly some cocaine reduces the problem he's dealing with, that the final mix of this was after months of fussing then he does it at his home studio in three days, i guarantee you he was awake for all three of those days doodle do, dude'll do, do doo doo do, it's all there |
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that i am adamant that he finally felt like, with this mix, he'd nailed what it was like to hear voices, and he didn't feel like he could recreate it back in a proper studio. and that's why he mashed it through over all the much more elegant versions and yes i really ought to go listen to what he did when he want back and finished it off years later. |
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that... the grain, the bass, i actually do a lot of this myself. but back in the late 60's most people would just think the mix is shit |
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the girl he loved once dying in the crossfire of bullets between heroes and villains, this represents the condition killing relationships |
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i've been in this town [of heroes and villains] that back in the city they've taken me for dead and gone for so long etc etc |
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+so long |
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heroes on fingers dancing on what you've done heroes and villains dancing on tears done |
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the spinner, obviously, the randomness of the condition; you never know what a doddle do, doo doo do do |
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*doodle he does not doddle once the entire track once; horrid typo |
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once once once thrice i'm serious about words but thinking about this all seriously has me at another level |
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when you hear or see something that already exists different than it is that’s an illusion not a hallucination |
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music is a programming language to recreate subjective experience find some finger paint and doo do do do the math i would rather work with Brian for one day than Richard for a week but given that i doubt I'll ever get either, beggars can't be choosers |
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did this brian ever confirm any of your findings in his track |
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sorry, this is a longer answer that, because i have a rather deece memory, a couple times i've actually been able to catch a synchronicity in the act, untangle it, and actually determine the forces responsible. every time, it has been: [shared information, shared timing] that in olden days i feel like the role of a schizophrenic was to spot potential disasters and avert them, and better to be wrong a few times than miss being right once. so then we get, say, my friend lewis, and in this context he finally makes sense: the delusions that the fate of the universe depends on him entirely; in olden days he'd be the Sybil in the cave and it would be his job to worry about such things. to hallucinate a bit on anything asked of him, and this explains so much, why schizophrenia was selected in evolutionarily -- you have the shaman tripping off in the corner; the role of the shaman is to fix systemic problems in the tribe where the usual patterns that keep things on the rails will backfire. so lewis has done things like... he's insanely worried about someone and a moment later he gets a phone call and he's told they were in a car accident. but, meanwhile, he will also just text me randomly saying he has a terrible feeling and am i ok? and i'm totally fine and he's wrong but i feel like he was really built to spot the possibility, and if you built everyone like this it would all go off the rails within a generation or two, but if you didn't build anything like this a single unusual catastrophic event could take the whole tribe out and last i heard Brian had retired to being a nice midwestern dad; i doubt he uses the internet even. i'm just glad he's ok, really. but no i'm just being philosophical here; 98% certain he has no clue i exist. that xlt exists |
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the other 2% being that i cannot rule out he feels my presence somehow, even though it's like being torn between "shut up that's insane" and "i cannot completely rule it out." but i do emphasize i am talking 2% out of 100 and probably that is way too rich |
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